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 Recruiting and Ratings

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1umgoblue85
WillieMfan
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WillieMfan

WillieMfan


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PostSubject: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 5:40 pm

There seems to be a lot be posted on recruiting and ratings being an imperfect science. It is hard to argue that ratings do not always tell the story. See Big Will. That said is Urban's method of over-signing giving him a real advantage? We can talk all day about the ethics side of it. Most of would agree it is a cold and harsh way to treat teenage kids. However, it does allow him to create new spots for kids coming in while taking out the trash (under-performers, bad attitude, doesn't fit the system, etc.) so to speak.

So here are some questions for the forum-

1. Is over-signing wrong? Why? Urban appears to be staying within B1G conference rules. From what I have read the B1G conference has taken some of the biggest steps to avoid SEC recruiting. So if Urban can stay within the letter of the law what is wrong with it?

2. Is it wrong to pull a player's scholarship for under performing? When you consider that ratings are imperfect and sometimes kids come from a HS that does not play a lot of top talent you can see where there may be difficulty evaluating someone. So if the kid is not as advertised why not give him the boot? These kids get a free education that can cost easily 60k+ and some of them ride the pine for their whole career.

The reason I ask these questions is I believe Urban has a real advantage to recruiting this way. If he is allowed to continue to do this I think it will be tough to compete. In the SEC teams were all doing it so you don't see one stand out from the crowd. In the B1G if one is doing it I feel like there will be one team and everyone else playing for #2. In the end you can scream ethics all you want but you know Suckeye fan will just laugh and talk w's and then flip cars.



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1umgoblue85

1umgoblue85


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PostSubject: Okay Willie, I'll bite   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:29 pm

1) The B1G has established guidelines and if coaches stick to those RULES I am okay with it. The rub lies in question #2.



2) The NCAA has made these scholarships annual renewals. Therefore, coaches and universities can use that tool to weed out underachievers on the field, academic underachievers, those with injuries, and those with criminal records etc. Here's the problem with the SEC, Jimmy X just doesn't pan out, so they force him out. Now, that really isn't the intent of receiving a scholarship to a school, but that's what happens all to often. The SEC is the biggest abuser of this and so are new coaching staffs. They always weed out what doesn't fit their systems.
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Admin
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PostSubject: I have a small issue with that....   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:33 pm

1umgoblue85 wrote:
1) The B1G has established guidelines and if coaches stick to those RULES I am okay with it. The rub lies in question #2.



2) The NCAA has made these scholarships annual renewals. Therefore, coaches and universities can use that tool to weed out underachievers on the field, academic underachievers, those with injuries, and those with criminal records etc. Here's the problem with the SEC, Jimmy X just doesn't pan out, so they force him out. Now, that really isn't the intent of receiving a scholarship to a school, but that's what happens all to often. The SEC is the biggest abuser of this and so are new coaching staffs. They always weed out what doesn't fit their systems.

And not with your points, but with the system. Question first: so the kids that are forced out...Jimmy X who didn't play well...if he goes to a different school, does he have to satisfy standard NCAA guidelines and sit out a year?

If so, THAT IS F'D UP.
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lovetheblue1217

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PostSubject: Re: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:43 pm

#2) I really don't see a problem with taking the scholey's from them for underperforming. It is kind of like the NFL, if you can't hack it you are done with that team. I do get a little irritated by these coaches that offer and then 8-9 months down the road yank the scholey because they found a better athlete. Happened to me personally, not a good feeling especially after you told other schools no.
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WillieMfan

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PostSubject: Re: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:52 pm

Admin wrote:


And not with your points, but with the system. Question first: so the kids that are forced out...Jimmy X who didn't play well...if he goes to a different school, does he have to satisfy standard NCAA guidelines and sit out a year?

If so, THAT IS F'D UP.


I really do not know if they have to sit out a year. I would think if a player gets released he should be free to go elsewhere and play right away. If that is not the case, I would argue, that it is a NCAA rules problem not an individual school's problem.

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PostSubject: Agreed, through and through.    Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:54 pm

WillieMfan wrote:
Admin wrote:


And not with your points, but with the system. Question first: so the kids that are forced out...Jimmy X who didn't play well...if he goes to a different school, does he have to satisfy standard NCAA guidelines and sit out a year?

If so, THAT IS F'D UP.


I really do not know if they have to sit out a year. I would think if a player gets released he should be free to go elsewhere and play right away. If that is not the case, I would argue, that it is a NCAA rules problem not an individual school's problem.


And all of these problems are the NCAA's problems. Schools do what anyone else would do in any other environment: Figure out the rules, but more importantly, figure out how to take advantage of the rules while still 'abiding' by them.
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WillieMfan

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PostSubject: Re: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:55 pm

1umgoblue85 wrote:

Now, that really isn't the intent of receiving a scholarship to a school, but that's what happens all to often. The SEC is the biggest abuser of this and so are new coaching staffs. They always weed out what doesn't fit their systems.

I agree that is not the intention of a scholarship BUT why waste 15k or more on a kid that is dead weight. If a kid on a academic scholarship is failing in school the university is not going to float him/her for another 3 years just out of being obligated.
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1umgoblue85

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PostSubject: Yes, they must sit out 1 year   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:55 pm

It is B.S.
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WillieMfan

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PostSubject: Re: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:58 pm

Admin wrote:
WillieMfan wrote:
Admin wrote:


And not with your points, but with the system. Question first: so the kids that are forced out...Jimmy X who didn't play well...if he goes to a different school, does he have to satisfy standard NCAA guidelines and sit out a year?

If so, THAT IS F'D UP.


I really do not know if they have to sit out a year. I would think if a player gets released he should be free to go elsewhere and play right away. If that is not the case, I would argue, that it is a NCAA rules problem not an individual school's problem.


And all of these problems are the NCAA's problems. Schools do what anyone else would do in any other environment: Figure out the rules, but more importantly, figure out how to take advantage of the rules while still 'abiding' by them.

If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. Funny thing is, their really not cheating. More and more I am finding it difficult to say what Urban is doing is wrong. I think I am going to throw up now. No
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PostSubject: Unbelievable.    Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 6:58 pm

1umgoblue85 wrote:
It is B.S.

Now I get it when those SEC players talk about literally fighting for a spot on the team each and every year.

It's eye opening.... Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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WillieMfan

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PostSubject: Re: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 7:02 pm

Admin wrote:
1umgoblue85 wrote:
It is B.S.

Now I get it when those SEC players talk about literally fighting for a spot on the team each and every year.

It's eye opening.... Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

It would motivate you wouldn't it? How many kids show up after being the top dog in HS and think they own the world? That would change if you knew you may be out with next years recruiting class.
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BRANCH-inator!

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PostSubject: Re: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 7:47 pm

Simple Idea;
Urban Meyer was always able to get the 5 star athletes, but what did they become after that? Without Tebow, who was he at Florida? Let us wait and see; In Hoke We Trust! Now be happy with the class, let them cheat all they want, and let us build the program the right way!
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GOBLUEJOE66

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PostSubject: Re: Recruiting and Ratings   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 7:57 pm

BRANCH-inator! wrote:
Simple Idea;
Urban Meyer was always able to get the 5 star athletes, but what did they become after that? Without Tebow, who was he at Florida? Let us wait and see; In Hoke We Trust! Now be happy with the class, let them cheat all they want, and let us build the program the right way!

TOTALLY agree. We have hit some bumps in the road the last few days, but this is still ONE HELL OF A CLASS....and it was put together with integrity and class by our coaches!!

Go Blue! TiM!
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Admin
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PostSubject: Both are great posts*   Recruiting and Ratings EmptyMon Jan 30, 2012 8:04 pm

GOBLUEJOE66 wrote:
BRANCH-inator! wrote:
Simple Idea;
Urban Meyer was always able to get the 5 star athletes, but what did they become after that? Without Tebow, who was he at Florida? Let us wait and see; In Hoke We Trust! Now be happy with the class, let them cheat all they want, and let us build the program the right way!

TOTALLY agree. We have hit some bumps in the road the last few days, but this is still ONE HELL OF A CLASS....and it was put together with integrity and class by our coaches!!

Go Blue! TiM!
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