Urbans' Legacy at Fla!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/sports/ncaafootball/hernandez-among-many-arrested-at-florida-in-the-meyer-years.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Happy Monday all!!

Go Blue!!

This says it all:

Jenkins, the cornerback, eventually left Florida for North Alabama after Meyer’s successor, Will Muschamp, dismissed him from the team after marijuana arrests. Several months later, Jenkins spoke to The Orlando Sentinel about his dismissal.

“If Coach Meyer were still coaching, I’d still be playing for the Gators,” he was quoted as saying. “Coach Meyer knows what it takes to win.”

Gosh I have tried desperately to find the link but I can't. I remember reading a website a few years ago that had a comparison of the players arrested and or kicked off the team under Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer during their stint at O$U and Florida. I believe it was up to date through Tressel and Urban's last year (2010). The website had a timeline and everything. It was absolutely unbelievable the number of players that were in trouble. I'll keep looking and if I find it I'll post it.

Here's a good topic of debate... Do any of you put blame of Hernandez and his situation on Urban and Florida. If so how much and why?

I'd like to hold my cards on this one and see what everyone else thinks first.

I really don't. It's not Urban's or the school's fault he is a knucklehead. However, Urban Meyer is a scumbag for using these troubled kids to win championships. With questionable morals and behavior, being thrust into the lifestyle of a star football player is harmful. But like Jenkins said, "Urban does whatever it takes to win."........

Don't blame Urban for murder charges. The behavior of the players suggest the coaches looked the other way, as long as you won titles, who cares. Without looking it up, don't remember the Fla. alumni, fans ever bitching about players arrested, getting in trouble. I think its boys will be boys attitude, so a little marijuana, a little bar fight, a little stealing, etc, hey we beat bama, Georgia, won 2 'ships, who cares. Not just Urban, I think the culture of SEC country is just win, I don't care how.

Would be curious to see what these former players are doing today. Have they matured and become responsible adults or not.

Well my take is that I don't blame Urban for the murders but I feel like he and his coaching staff at Florida definitely had a responsibility to mold Hernandez into a better man than he is today and in that sense it seems like they've failed him a bit. Of course that can be said about any person that has had any significant amount of influence over another person in that person's life. Basically you can't go around blaming a sixth grade teacher for a guy that gets in the trouble with the law ten years later.

Yes, ultimately Aaron Hernandez is to blame. He's a grown man, he knows right from wrong (or at least he should). But it seems like there may be a maturity factor here that he doesn't have and THAT can be directly contributed to a person or a group of persons that are supposed to help you develop that. There is a difference between on the field maturity and off the field maturity and I don't expect the NFL to have to teach a player off the field maturity. That would be like expecting my company to develop my maturity level while not at work. However, I think that off the field development should be done at the college level and that is where I think Urban Meyer and the UF staff failed.

I think you have to weigh a few factors here...

1) How much influence did you have in that person's life before they messed up?
2) How recent was the influence?
3) What the expectant level of development while a person is under your tutelage?
4) What is your track record compared to others in your field (in this case other college coaches) of allowing kids under your care to get in trouble?

I think I read somewhere that while at Florida Urban had Hernandez and other players over to his house for bible studies quite regularly so clearly there was some level of trying to do the right thing. The problem is when you constantly let issues slide under the rug, it doesn't matter how many scriptures you read a kid, he tends to develop a false sense of self worth or at bare minimum some sense of invisibility and not addressing that is like rolling the snowball down the hill yourself.

IMO, when you start to look the other way and cultivate a win-at-all-costs atmosphere you certainly can't look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and said that you shoulder no blame.

I like that this article points out how pathetic it is that now, only after Hernandez has been brought up on murder charges, that the insane number of Florida players arrested under Meyer's coaching is being questioned. The never ending love affair that the media had with Tim Tebow really did overshadow this issue, didn't it? It was so insufferable and over the top that they weren't going to concentrate on anything else in Gator land. Remember when Tebow got a minor ankle sprain against Kentucky? The way ESPN handled it was the same as CNN if they were covering the President being shot.

Urban is not above using troubled players of any kind to win football games. That was always a given. But despite that, I don't think you can place the Hernandez saga squarely at his feet. I just have this feeling that he was headed down this road regardless.

But I agree with EJinGA that Meyer is still a scumbag. He's now at a school that could care less about morals as long as you're winning and cheating coaches get celebrated by being carried off the field. It's a year and half later and I'm still in shock that he just fell into OSU's lap once Tressel finally got busted.

I pretty much agree with the posts in that I do not blame Meyer for the CURRENT situation Hernandez is in, and I also agree that he fostered a culture of win, win, win and just keep turning my head when they screw up outside of the football world!! I don't see that changing now....i.e. turning in his old school for a recruiting violation involving a player he JUST HAPPENS to be hot to trot on signing!! Well, except for Tebow, because Tebow didn't need any of his spiritual help!

Sandy - I remember seeing a website like you described. I hope you find it because it a real eye opener. I'm surprised a reporter hasn't already found it with all of the attention Meyer is getting right now.

Go Blue!!

I blame him for recruiting thugs, but not for what the thugs do.

To me, the biggest farce related to this Meyer/win-at-all-costs/Hernandez affair (and this agno is not trying to start a firestorm) is the "bible sessions". For all you could convince me, Meyer is as irreligious as I am; the so-called bible sessions, whatever they were and however conducted, were nothing more than a smokescreen ploy on his part to use as CYA afterward, if the need arose (and obviously it has...and then some). Just how much heart do any of you feel he ever put into a word he read from that book?  Knowing his players were prospective felons, even murderers, any responsible adult/coach would realize tougher "love" than reading passages from a millenia-old text would be needed to mitigate the problems any of us would have known were sure to lie ahead.

Lastly, unlike his deified (by the media at least) ex-QB Tebow, who it must be said backed up his scripture-spouting words with deeds (e.g., missions to underprivileged countries, etc.), Meyer never came close to doing any such thing.

Rant finished...

mike, I agree. I'm a church goer, and one thing I hate is the hypocrate that uses the bible to cover his butt. Tebow is a good person, that has done good things. It isn't his fault that the media chases him around, it isn't his fault that Denver wasted a 1st round pick on him, and it isn't his fault that he was traded to the Jets.

Urban is a fake. But, he wins so ESPN kisses his butt.

Hernandez is responsible for Hernandez. Meyer, like Tressel and many others is responsible for enabling those with bad behavior because they are talented at football.

Would a tougher stance have changed him? Maybe, maybe not, we'll never know.

'shoes

fishgoblue22 wrote:

mike, I agree.  I'm a church goer, and one thing I hate is the hypocrate that uses the bible to cover his butt.  Tebow is a good person, that has done good things.  It isn't his fault that the media chases him around, it isn't his fault that Denver wasted a 1st round pick on him, and it isn't his fault that he was traded to the Jets.  

Urban is a fake.  But, he wins so ESPN kisses his butt.

Good to hear some people occasionally think I make sense, Fish. Whilst Tebow always came across to me as,
er, well, "different", and overrated in terms of the football ultrastar ESPN made him out to be, there's no denying he put his time, money, and even life on the line (considering how valueless life is in some underdeveloped nations if you have money or other valuables on you) to help far-less-fortunate people.
Any decent person would have admiration for someone like that. As for his beliefs, they're his right to harbor, however he sees fit, same as for any human being.

Meyer, now he's a totally different story. Not only in terms of all that's been discussed above, but I honestly wonder how "sick" he really was during that "health-related" hiatus of his?

wshoes wrote:

Hernandez is responsible for Hernandez. Meyer, like Tressel and many others is responsible for enabling those with bad behavior because they are talented at football.

Would a tougher stance have changed him? Maybe, maybe not, we'll never know.

'shoes

I agree.

Just wanted to clarify in case I might have been misunderstood, I never had a beef with Tebow himself, just the media's insane coverage of him. I've watched plenty of Heisman trophy winners and other talented college football players get hyped through the years. But the Tebow mania was always on a completely different level of insanity, which is something I never understood.

WolverineHistorian wrote:

Just wanted to clarify in case I might have been misunderstood, I never had a beef with Tebow himself, just the media's insane coverage of him.  I've watched plenty of Heisman trophy winners and other talented college football players get hyped through the years.  But the Tebow mania was always on a completely different level of insanity, which is something I never understood.

Agree...or how they put it in the south....AMEN!!

Go Blue!!

Your post didn't come across as intimating a "beef" with TT, WH. I read into it at first read what you clarified above: the media flat-out went to heck with the joke in terms of hyping the Tim Tebow story.

And I have a simple theory: it sells. Whether because of the public's infatuation with religion, abnormality (it is quite an abnormal player who plays QB, the "glamor/don't-touch-in-practice" position, then tries to bulldoze 300-pound DL-men), or whatever, the TT story sold...bottom line. And we all know how anxious the media is to boost their ratings, whatever the source.

By the way---if I might ask---is your e-mail still something about a "dyn[amic] guy"?  Tried e-mailing you, to no avail, some weeks ago...

Still the same email, going on 16 years now. I didn't see anything from you. Want to try again?

fishgoblue22 wrote:

...Urban is a fake.  But, he wins so ESPN kisses his butt...

I's just like to add my two cents... He wins and he has SEC ties. that's why they kiss is ass.

WolverineHistorian wrote:

Just wanted to clarify in case I might have been misunderstood, I never had a beef with Tebow himself, just the media's insane coverage of him.  I've watched plenty of Heisman trophy winners and other talented college football players get hyped through the years.  But the Tebow mania was always on a completely different level of insanity, which is something I never understood.

Joey Heisman was pretty bad. I remember being so annoyed by that guy. Maybe that was just me though.

Joey or Johnny?

2ndComingOfBo wrote:

Joey or Johnny?

Joey Heisman. The Joey Harrington campaign from 2000 I believe. They even had a 100+ ft billboard on the side of a building in times square.

Yes, I remember the building-billboard, but I believe that was Nike's doing. Of course the CEO of Nike is an Oregon Alumnus (and we all know how he is)...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1022696/index.htm

"100 feet
Height of the billboard mounted by Nike outside Madison Square Garden touting quarterback Joey Harrington of Oregon—alma mater of Nike CEO Phil Knight—for the 2001 Heisman."

Here is a question... IF Meyer didnt USE these kind of kids to win football games, would he be nearly as successful as he has been? I say NO.

EJinGA wrote:

Here is a question... IF Meyer didnt USE these kind of kids to win football games, would he be nearly as successful as he has been? I say NO.

Well I think he's a good coach and would do relatively well with any level of talent- see Bowling Green and Utah. But if you don't restrict your pool of blue chip talent to high character guys and others do, then yes you have an edge.

'shoes

The more I think about it, the more I do want to put some blame on Meyer. He took in high risk kids, used them, and didnt provide any kind of stable enviornment for them. By doing so, he is esentially a enabler of their poor behavior.

AH pulled the trigger, but it's apparent that he didnt have a supportive, family style surrounding under Meyer, especially at an impressionable time in his life. I think the number of arrests under Urban prove that.

Not that I am trying to make an excuse for AH... But it's not like he had a fatherly style coach like Hoke to mentor him. And it also makes me wonder, with his "I can't trust anyone" mentality, if AH or other players have some sort of resentment towards Meyer and other coaches like him, knowing they were used for their abilities.

wshoes wrote:

EJinGA wrote:

Here is a question... IF Meyer didnt USE these kind of kids to win football games, would he be nearly as successful as he has been? I say NO.

Well I think he's a good coach and would do relatively well with any level of talent- see Bowling Green and Utah. But if you don't restrict your pool of blue chip talent to high character guys and others do, then yes you have an edge.

'shoes

+1 shoes