So Where's Walton

when the going get's tough? He's on the bench.

Thought this guy was better than sliced bread?

Who has ever said that Walton was elite?

Wasn't he McDonalds AA? One of the highest rated recruits in the country?

#37 in the country?

Nope he wasn't McDonald's AA. He was the 37th overall recruit (per rivals). Irvin was the 24th overall recruit (per rivals).

8.4ppg and 2.8apg isn't shabby for a freshman PG. Walton should land on the Big Ten All-Freshman team, so I don't think calling him out is warranted.

He is on the bench at the end because he Albecht is more composed.

Well, I called him out because he was on the bench when the going got tough.

That is a fact.

Therefore asking where he is when the game is important is warranted.

I told eggo on the board, I don't look at points or assists. I look to see who plays well and who doesn't. Who takes the shot when you need it and who chokes on that shot. Who will set the tough pick. Who will work hard to get their team in good offensive position.

I don't give a shit about points.

When Spike is in the offense runs well. IMHO when Walton is in it doesn't so much.

And that is mostly the reason that Spike is playing down the stretch.

Walton plays better defense. His offense will come along. It's good we have both guys.

'shoes

Walton's role this year reminds me a lot of Yogi Ferrell's role last year for Indiana. Indiana had a lot of talent around Ferrell (19th overall recruit) so Ferrell wasn't asked to do much. Walton is putting up similar numbers to Ferrell's last season.

Derrick Walton---> Yogi Ferrell
Nik Stauskas---> Jordan Hulls
Caris LeVert---> Victor Oladipo
Glenn Robinson III---> Christian Watford
Mitch McGary---> Cody Zeller

Those aren't great comparisons, but it paints a picture. This is Walton's year to grow and next year the team will be his, much like Indiana is Ferrell's team this year.


Also, take a look at Darius Morris' freshman year:
24.3 minutes, 4.4 points, 2.6 assists, 1.8 rebounds

Compared to Walton's:
24.4 minutes, 8.4 points, 2.8 assists, 2.4 rebounds


Walton is fine.

Joe, you are right that the offense runs better with Albrecht on the court. Walton is young and makes some careless plays. He also has pretty iffy shot-selection. These are things that get coached.

Walton is a much better defender than Albrecht, though.

Also, Derrick Walton has a 18 Roland rating compared to Albrecht's -28 Roland rating.

I think we've been pretty spoiled with freshman performances the last couple of years, especially with Trey Burke. However, not all of our freshman have come out of the gate strong in past years. Morris didn't really come on until the end of his freshman year and Mitch wasn't consistent at all until the tournament last year. Albrecht is definitely giving us more right now, but hopefully Walton will pass him at some point this year.

jjabilene wrote:

I think we've been pretty spoiled with freshman performances the last couple of years, especially with Trey Burke. However, not all of our freshman have come out of the gate strong in past years. Morris didn't really come on until the end of his freshman year and Mitch wasn't consistent at all until the tournament last year. Albrecht is definitely giving us more right now, but hopefully Walton will pass him at some point this year.

If it was as definite as you say, their Roland ratings would be closer. I'm not saying Albrecht isn't giving us more, because that is subjective, but I don't think it is definitive either way.

Spike seem to run the offense better, also give a nice spark when he come in I like that he can also launch a 3 now and again. He seems to understand the drive and dish part of the game and see's the floor pretty well, i think he plays alot like Kraft at O$U, a pretty heady kid not overly flashy but smart

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

jjabilene wrote:

I think we've been pretty spoiled with freshman performances the last couple of years, especially with Trey Burke. However, not all of our freshman have come out of the gate strong in past years. Morris didn't really come on until the end of his freshman year and Mitch wasn't consistent at all until the tournament last year. Albrecht is definitely giving us more right now, but hopefully Walton will pass him at some point this year.

If it was as definite as you say, their Roland ratings would be closer. I'm not saying Albrecht isn't giving us more, because that is subjective, but I don't think it is definitive either way.

I have no idea what a roland rating is, but it's pretty clear during every game that the offense runs smoother with Spike in the game. FWIW, Ken Pom's offensive rating for Albrecht is world's better than Walton's. That's a rating I am familiar with and put a fair amount of stock in. I think Walton is a little bit better as a defender though.

" While some are content to use conventional stats like points, rebounds, and field goal percentage in assessing player contributions, a better gauge of a player's worth to a specific team might come from looking at the difference in how the team plays with the player on court versus performance with the player off court.

This rating isn't an absolute measure of a player's ability, but it does represent how successful a player is with a given team. In general the player with the best Roland Rating on a team is the difference maker (exclude the guys who play a statistically insignificant number of minutes). When the top guy is on the floor the team performs at a much higher level. " (http://www.82games.com/rolandratings0405.htm)

Roland rating involves +/-.

+/- is the the point differential a team incurs when a certain player is on the floor. For example, if Albrecht started the game, Michigan went up 2-0, and Albrecht sat out the rest of the game... his +/- would be +2.

Roland Rating accounts for point differential when that player is off the court, too. For example, If Albrecht starts the game, Michigan went up 2-0, Albrecht sat out the next 5 minutes and the opponent then went on an 10-0 run, Albrecht's Roland Rating would be +12.

+2 (on court +/-) - -10 (off court +/-) = +12

On the contrary, if it was Walton who was on the bench for the first bucket but came in after, his Roland Rating would be -12

-10 (on court +/-) - +2 (off court +/-) = -12


It is useful in evaluating who the team sees more success with in the lineup.

Yeah Joe was saying last night that he doesn't take into consideration points, rebs, assts, etc. It's clear Joe's gauge is the team play while Derrick is on the floor versus Spike. And Joe is right, the team seams to run smoother with Spike.

I have to say that I have been very impressed with Walton's play so far. He will only get better IMO and by mid B1G play he should be solid enough to help run the team deep into the tourney. I am going to wait to look at his yr 1 to yr 2 improvement to really assess him but for now he's everything I've thought he would be given the circumstances.

The nice thing is that he has not been put in a position where the team has absolutely had to rely on him. There are plenty of other play makers around him. Also guys that can play the point if needed. I can't wait to see him progress but make no mistake, two years from now he WILL be the most important guy on the team like Burke was last year.

Once again, perception is not always the truth. If the team played better with spike than Walton, their Roland ratings would be reversed.

My point is that the difference between the two offensively is at least equal to the difference between them defensively. Spike is a liability defensively and Walton plays good defense.

You want Spike out there in high leverage situations because of his experience and composure, much like a closer in baseball.

If Albrecht was better than Walton, he would be play more minutes than Walton. John Beilein is not a moron.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

...My point is that the difference between the two offensively is at least equal to the difference between them defensively...

+2

I'm not even trying to be my usual homer-self. Walton has a lot of room to grow, but Michigan's ceiling with him at PG is much higher than their ceiling with Spike at PG. As of now, I love the way their minutes are being split up. It is a great situation to follow.

joe wrote:

when the going get's tough? He's on the bench.

Thought this guy was better than sliced bread?

He is a true freshman. He is a true freshman that has IT though. He will be a stud next season.

He only had like 17 points tonight, man that really sucks

I stand by what I said then.

I now say he may have turned a corner. He played very well tonight.

BTW, somehow I knew there would be a retort from you on this subject? You are about as predictable as an (ahem) troll.

Walton was the reason UM won tonight.  Really picked up his game tonight when GRIII disappeared.

He also knocked down some very clutch FT at the end of the game as well.

joe wrote:

I stand by what I said then.

I now say he may have turned a corner. He played very well tonight.

BTW, somehow I knew there would be a retort from you on this subject? You are about as predictable as an (ahem) troll.

This isn't an "I was right, you were wrong" thing. You question a guy who wasn't making an impact. Completely understandable. I love Spike too. He is such a key for this team. It isn't a one-or-the-other thing, for me. We should be happy we have two good PGs for the next 3 years. One, Walton, with BTPOY potential (in 2 years).

joe wrote:

I stand by what I said then.

I now say he may have turned a corner. He played very well tonight.

BTW, somehow I knew there would be a retort from you on this subject? You are about as predictable as an (ahem) troll.

I've noticed that people that disagree with you are compared to trolls (or bad posters on some other forum)often. You do know what a troll is right?

MGoBlue, we've disagreed about a lot (read: selfies), but I've never considered you a troll and I never thought I was trolling you.

When you revisit posts made 3 months ago, based on results that were present 3 months ago and the minute something happens to change tht post just a little you are the first one to repost it. ALWAYS. Just to prove someone was wrong.

Well I wasn't wrong. When I posted it I had every reason in the world to post it. 3 months changes a lot of things. But the minute Walton did 1 good thing you jumped on the forum and dug up an old thread just to PROVE I was WRONG.

Let me ask, What does trolling mean to you? That right there is a PERFECT example of trolling.

You realize 2nd coming bit the dust because he was an ass? He told everyone about it.

joe wrote:

When you revisit posts made 3 months ago, based on results that were present 3 months ago and the minute something happens to change tht post just a little you are the first one to repost it. ALWAYS. Just to prove someone was wrong.

Well I wasn't wrong. When I posted it I had every reason in the world to post it. 3 months changes a lot of things. But the minute Walton did 1 good thing you jumped on the forum and dug up an old thread just to PROVE I was WRONG.

.

Don't think it is trolling but your point is understood. What you have described is certainly annoying. That said, people sometimes come across as being being beyond refute and in those cases it is necessary to show them where they were wrong. Sort of a take them down a peg situation. Not saying it's you or that in this case it was warranted.

I just know in my short time here I was greeted by a few that were quick identify themselves as "experts." They somehow think they know more than most/all and having a different opinion is recipe for a public lashing. That too is annoying.