Maybe it's time to show some appreciation for Hoke

-Since 1900, there have only been 4 Michigan football coaches with a win percentage of .760 or higher. 3 of them have venues named in their honor (Yost Arena, Crisler Center, Schembechler Hall). The 4th is Hoke.

-Michigan was coming off it's worst era in school history when Hoke was hired. Hoke only beat Ohio St. for the first time in a decade, went 11-2, and won a BCS bowl game.

-Hoke's 2nd season was only a let-down for those who don't realize that becoming elite is a process. You don't snap your finger and become a team that is able to compete with Alabama. However, put together a couple Alabama-like classes, convince your studs that winning a Big Ten Championship is worth more than jumping to the NFL a year early, and soon those games won't be 42-14 anymore.

-Hoke's 3rd season, he is 4-0. You can piss and moan all you want about not winning by enough, but at the end of the day, Michigan still has potential to go undefeated.

-The future looks brighter than ever in terms of talent coming in. Fire Hoke and you can kiss that goodbye. Players love Hoke because sells the Michigan brand.


What you guys need to realize is that this is not the NFL. You can't just replace your coach every 3-4 years and expect to be successful in college football. Recruiting is stretching 2 and 3 years out. You fire a coach and bring in a new one, and you essentially press the reset button on the recruiting trail. You have to let a coach go 4-5 years. Let him get a full cycle of players through the program. THEN discuss if he is that man for the job.

What you guys need to realize is that this is not the NFL. You can't just replace your coach every 3-4 years and expect to be successful in college football. Recruiting is stretching 2 and 3 years out. You fire a coach and bring in a new one, and you essentially press the reset button on the recruiting trail. You have to let a coach go 4-5 years. Let him get a full cycle of players through the program. THEN discuss if he is that man for the job.

Totally agree.

'shoes

Kudos for a good post, Hail...

Here's another tid-bit to comtemplate: Saturday night he joined Lloyd Carr as, amazingly, the only U-M coaches to win a game when trailing by 14 or more.  It STILL puzzles me to all hell to think we'd never accomplished that in nearly 120 years of football prior to 1995. Call me naive', but overcoming a fourteen-point deficit, esp. with 20 or more minutes left on the clock, just isn't---or doesn't seem to be---the same as winning the PowerBall or being struck by lightning.

Great post.

michmike wrote:

Kudos for a good post, Hail...

Here's another tid-bit to comtemplate: Saturday night he joined Lloyd Carr as, amazingly, the only U-M coaches to win a game when trailing by 14 or more.  It STILL puzzles me to all hell to think we'd never accomplished that in nearly 120 years of football prior to 1995. Call me naive', but overcoming a fourteen-point deficit, esp. with 20 or more minutes left on the clock, just isn't---or doesn't seem to be---the same as winning the PowerBall or being struck by lightning.

Thanks Hail!!

Holy shit, Mike! That is absolutely mind blowing!!! BTW - if you are naive`, then so am I!

Go Blue!!

Great post, 'Hail.

Totally agree.

And mickmike...that's a helluva stat. Mind blowing.

michmike wrote:

Kudos for a good post, Hail...

Here's another tid-bit to comtemplate: Saturday night he joined Lloyd Carr as, amazingly, the only U-M coaches to win a game when trailing by 14 or more.  It STILL puzzles me to all hell to think we'd never accomplished that in nearly 120 years of football prior to 1995. Call me naive', but overcoming a fourteen-point deficit, esp. with 20 or more minutes left on the clock, just isn't---or doesn't seem to be---the same as winning the PowerBall or being struck by lightning.

Back in the days of ESPN Classic taking delight in showing every heartbreaking Michigan loss ever recorded, I remember seeing that stat mentioned during one game and I was like, "huh?"

The only game from the Schembechler years that would have counted was our 1988 Rose Bowl team when they played at Iowa. Down 17-3 in a loud Kinnick Stadium, we did come back to tie it 17-17. Then towards the end of the game, after putting one last drive together, we had 1st and goal at the Iowa 1 when Tracy Williams fumbled the ball away. While technically we did come back to tie after being down 14, since there was no overtime in those days, the game ended 17-17.

In regards to the original topic, I'm supporting Hoke. The last 2 games have been mind boggling but I want to see how the team responds to the rest of the season.

Bo's teams weren't built very well to come from behind. Fortunately they rarely had to.

'shoes

Hail, I'm declaring this the post of the year. That is great info. Plus he defends the home turf.

GO BLUE!

fishgoblue22 wrote:

Hail, I'm declaring this the post of the year. That is great info.  Plus he defends the home turf.  

GO BLUE!

Absolutely!!!!

Go Blue!!

Good to see everyone in such good spirits here. Let's see if this post looks as good in a couple weeks. Sorry to be Debbie Downer but squeaking wins vs. Akron and UCONN do not make me feel real good about the B1G schedule.

ND has been through 6 coaches in the last 15 years. Brian Kelly went to the NC game in his second year. The point is I could argue ND's program was in more turmoil than Michigan's and yet Kelly went to the NC game in year two. I know that people will argue the cupboard bare theory BUT this is year 3 and these are Hoke's guys. The RR excuse is no longer valid. There is no set time for success. Those arguing it is only year 3 do not have any facts that it should take more. Jim Harbaugh took over Stanford after they just went 5 years with no more than 5 wins. The year before he took over they won one game. In year 4 he went 11-1 and won the Orange Bowl. It does not take 5-6 years to build a winner. Saban did it in year two at Alabama.

Saban uses professional players, what do you expect?

You can go back to his days at Toledo and see it did not take him 4-5 years to build a program. That is well before his more ehem..shady period.

So, you expect RS Freshmen and Sophomores to win a NC without luck or experience?  You can't possibly tell me that Notre Dame did not benefit from extremely fortunate circumstances last year?  Or maybe you are saying that they deserved to be in the National Championship game last year?  Kelly also had a few more quality upper-classmen to rely on last year.  I'm not making excuses, just saying that style-points don't matter when it all comes down to wins and losses.

Charlie Weis was a great recruiter at ND.  He had a lot of talent there.  Especially on defense. Teo, Nix, Tuett.  The foundation was there for Kelly to win.  He brought scheme that worked with the very talented players that Weis left him.

RR left some talent for Hoke, but not a lot of depth.  Hoke took those players and finished in the top 10 his first year.  Last season they went through a roster turnover at the worst time because they played one of the toughest schedules in the country.  This year is some more OL turnover, but it is good for the future. Experience is the key.  We all talked about being a year away before the season started.

Bottom line is, the team is 4-0 and still has all goals within reach.  And, let's not kid ourselves, the B1G is weak.  Ohio and NW are really the only two good teams, and UM has a lot of time to improve before facing them.

Hope your right Fish. I think most fans were thinking it was smooth sailing until November after the ND game. Now after the Akron/UCONN games it is hard to feel confident about any of the games.

2ndComingOfBo wrote:

...just saying that style-points don't matter when it all comes down to wins and losses...

Not according to the BCS formula ha ha.

In all seriousness. Hoke deserves another year at minimum, probably two.

What I want to see from his teams are progression. We knew we would take a big step back this year with our O line. As long as they are undoubtedly better at the end of the year then they are right now then I will view that as a win.

DG is definitely NOT better than he was the last five  games of last year. A lot of that can be attributed to the O line. Again as long as he is undoubtedly better at the end of the year then he is right now then I will view that as a win.

I know we didn't see it much against CM or ND and we have to keep things in prospective with the Akron and UCONN offenses but the D line is getting better. As long as they continue on that path and are undoubtedly better at the end of the year then they are right now then I will view that as a win.

If we don't see this progression or we actually see a regression over the next year and Hoke has done nothing to address it (i.e. position coach changes) then I think we have a right to start calling for heads. Or at least showing real impatience.

I'm with MgoBlue in that I am concerned but I am far from pushing the panic button.

Of course the subject is allowed to be discussed (duh, we're on a discussion forum) but I don't even see this as an issue at this point. The players love him, recruits love him, (as far as I know) everyone loves him. Unless we turn into Purdue Coach Hoke isn't going anywhere. This 1 to 2 years before turning up the heat conversation is absurd.

If Michigan starts losing multiple conference games the conversation will begin whether you like it or not. You're naive to think otherwise. Welcome to the world of big time athletics. You can't charge $300 for tickets and not have the stakes raised. It's a new world, one where you produce or find something else to do.

Thanks, everyone, for your comments on my emphasis of coach Hoke's joining L.C. as the only M coaches "to erase a 14-pt deficit, [which BH did] last Saturday night."

My bad---and all of yours for not catching it!!---he had already joined L.C.'s club in 2011, the first ND night game...weren't we behind 24-7 at one point, WolverineHistorian?

I think so. Thus, before UConn last week, BH already had his membership card in his wallet...eh?

michmike wrote:

Thanks, everyone, for your comments on my emphasis of coach Hoke's joining L.C. as the only M coaches "to erase a 14-pt deficit, [which BH did] last Saturday night."

My bad---and all of yours for not catching it!!---he had already joined L.C.'s club in 2011, the first ND night game...weren't we behind 24-7 at one point, WolverineHistorian?

I think so. Thus, before UConn last week, BH already had his membership card in his wallet...eh?

Regardless of when, he is still only the 2nd UM coach to do that!  Still an awesome stat/catch, mike! Kudos!!

Go Blue!!