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sandyeggo_blue

sandyeggo_blue

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PostSubject: change my mind   change my mind EmptySat Apr 17, 2021 9:37 pm

Bev Plocki > Harbaugh

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Guy w/nothin better to do

Guy w/nothin better to do

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyMon Apr 19, 2021 12:25 am

sandyeggo_blue wrote:
Bev Plocki > Harbaugh

I can't and won't.  Coincidentally enough this gives me an opening to share my Women's Gymnastics story.

It took me longer than I would have liked to accept a job after I graduated.  But I was still a hockey fan so I of course kept going to the games and crammed in with the students at the games.  As I was still at the games and knew most of the guys on the team from the year prior I would also go party (as much as an old guy who still had to drive home after) could.

At the time the Women's Gymnastics house was just around the corner from the hockey house so naturally they were at most of the hockey parties.  I casually got to know several of them over the course of a few weeks.  Eventually they started bugging me to come to watch one of their meets.  I always used the excuse the I had hockey to follow, even when they were on the road I'd watch them on TV, and in the off games where I couldn't even find a web-stream of the game I'd listen on the radio.  I told them that I'd love to go if there wasn't a hockey game at the same time but hockey didn't have an off week.

Well I should have considered that this was Michigan but no only were these girls hot, flexible, funny, etc. but they were also incredibly intelligent.    The next time that I saw them they came running up to me and said "We found a meet that you can go to and not miss any hockey.  Hockey was in Alaska one weekend and the girls had a meet against Iowa. There is a 4-hour time difference between Ann Arbor and Fairbanks, Alaska therefore I had ample time to go to Crisler and watch the girls in their meet at 7:30 (gymnastics meets typically last a little over an hour) and then go home and watch the hockey team at 11:30.

I couldn't argue with that so I begrudgingly agreed to go.  I walked into Crisler wit the full expectation of it being the longest hour of my life.  I even considered setting the alarm on my phone for every 15 minutes just to prevent me from nodding off.  I knew if that would have happened I never would have heard the end of it.  As I was walking in there I saw at least 2 dozen young girls running around all excited and trying cartwheels in the concourse.  I slogged my way down to the front row as I wanted to make sure the girls could see me so I'd get credit for going.

Then the meet started, the lights dimmed, and music started up.  Next let me say that I didn't have a freaking clue what was going on or even know how to score what was going on.  They had multiple events going on the the same time and like I said I didn't have a clue what I was watching.  However I was absolutely mesmerized at what those girls could do.  They were doing stuff that I used to dream about doing on skis with 10 feet of air off of a jump while going 25 mph down a hill only they were doing it on a balance beam, vault, bars, or just the floor.  Of course the pervert in me also did not mind the tight leotards that the girls were wearing.  Damn gymnasts have nice asses.

Anyways that hour which I was dreading went by in the blink of an eye.  I was thoroughly entertained.  At the end a few of the better girls who participated in all of the events sat at tables and signed autographs.  I wasn't about to wait in line with a bunch of 6 year-old girls so I started to walk out.  One of the girls who knew me but didn't have to sign any autographs saw me and ran up to me before I left.

"So did you like it?" she asked.

I replied that "I didn't think I would but it was very entertaining."

To which she responded, "Did you understand a thing that was going on?"

I laughed and said "No, but I liked it.  Thanks for making me come."

To this day that was probably the most entertained that I have ever been at a UM athletic event, and I've been to everything that was a varsity sport when I was a student (with the exception of Men's or Women's basketball and water polo).  I've been to at least 200 hockey games, 50 football games (including the Penn State game in 2005), 75-100 baseball games, probably 15-20 Softball games, a few Crew meets (my first practicum was on the river where they practiced), a golf match, wrestling, track & field, swimming & diving, cross country (I didn't go to any races but I saw them running all over the place),tennis, field hockey, soccer, volleyball, etc.  Lacrosse and Men's gymnastics weren't varsity sports when I was there.

Now after writing all of that I have the feeling that I may have told that story before.  If I did I apologize as anyone reading this was most likely here before when I may have told it.

Anyway, Polocki has pretty much dominated while coaching at Michigan.  The year that she got here (1990) Michigan struggled to a 6th place conference record.  Since then the worst that Michigan finished was 4th place twice.  She has 25 Big Ten titles.  She has built a powerhouse at Michigan which finally reached their first National Championship Saturday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bev_Plocki

https://mgoblue.com/news/2019/3/27/womens-gymnastics-tradition-never-graduates-plockis-24-championship-journey-at-michigan.aspx


Michigan actually has/had a lot of coaches better than Harbaugh.  Don't forget about Hutchins (softball), Bakich (baseball), Berenson/Pearson (hockey), Howard (basketball), Bottom (swimming) and he wasn't even Phelps' coach-I don't know his name, etc.

Alas Harbaugh has the name recognition and in the money sport.  Sure his tenure has been disappointing but that might be due to unrealistic expectations?  I don't know, as Michigan fans we're unreasonable but it is so wrong to demand anything but the best?


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sandyeggo_blue wrote:
that's some first ballot hall of fame stalking on your part. How in the world did you find that guy. I guess the better question is why?
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sandyeggo_blue

sandyeggo_blue

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyMon Apr 19, 2021 7:19 pm

I also couldn't believe how invested I was while watching the NC meet on TV. I was absolutely glued to the TV.

Regarding the coaches... It's a running thing with me to point out all of the coaches that UM has that out achieve Harbaugh.

As for your statement about his tenure being disappointing due to unrealistic expectations... I don't think you have a leg to stand on in this debate.

Bottom line is he took USD from a bottom feeder and made them into a winning program. He also developed an NFL QB while he was at it.

He took Stanford from a bottom feeder and made them into a winning program. He also recruited and developed a sure fire first round hall of fame QB if he hadn't retired 10 years too soon.

He took and NFL franchise and made them into perennial power and took them to a super bowl and was coincidently a play away from winning the super bowl.

I don't think anyone on here who had expectations of him recruiting on par with our rivals, having a winning record against our rivals, winning a B1G championship and being in the playoffs after year 6 would have unrealistic expectations. Not to mention the failure at QB development, the attrition, the lack of adjustment to the college game, etc, etc.

as of year 6 Harbaugh has been a failure.

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Guy w/nothin better to do

Guy w/nothin better to do

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyTue Apr 20, 2021 9:37 pm

https://www.collegesportslive.com/video/mich/womens-gymnastics/womens-gymnastics-wins-national-championship-in-dramatic-fashion-20210418044147069267/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNyEoVxpJqW/?igshid=1ar3gwmgfk3ef


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'eggo denoted me a First ballot Hall of Famer!

sandyeggo_blue wrote:
that's some first ballot hall of fame stalking on your part. How in the world did you find that guy. I guess the better question is why?


Last edited by Guy w/nothin better to do on Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Guy w/nothin better to do

Guy w/nothin better to do

Posts : 8681
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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyTue Apr 20, 2021 9:46 pm

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

As for your statement about his tenure being disappointing due to unrealistic expectations... I don't think you have a leg to stand on in this debate.

We weren't that good with Rich Clod or Hoke, why should it instantly change with Harbaugh? Don't forget, the players are basically kids (and the roster completely turns over every 4 years). I'm not making excuses for Harbaugh, he has made far too many mistakes in his time at Michigan but yes Michigan fans expectations are unrealistic. But as Hoke said, "This is Michigan".

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'eggo denoted me a First ballot Hall of Famer!

sandyeggo_blue wrote:
that's some first ballot hall of fame stalking on your part. How in the world did you find that guy. I guess the better question is why?
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sandyeggo_blue

sandyeggo_blue

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyWed Apr 21, 2021 9:05 pm

Guy w/nothin better to do wrote:
sandyeggo_blue wrote:

As for your statement about his tenure being disappointing due to unrealistic expectations... I don't think you have a leg to stand on in this debate.  

We weren't that good with Rich Clod or Hoke, why should it instantly change with Harbaugh?  Don't forget, the players are basically kids (and the roster completely turns over every 4 years).  I'm not making excuses for Harbaugh, he has made far too many mistakes in his time at Michigan but yes Michigan fans expectations are unrealistic.  But as Hoke said, "This is Michigan".

when you buy a chevette (hoke) you go chevette speeds. When you think you're buy a corvette (harbaugh) you expect to go corvette speeds.

He coached up, out recruited, consistently won at high levels and was a top coach everywhere he was at before michigan. I expected the same (if not more) with the resources he was walking into at michigan.

I don't feel that my expectations were unrealistic.

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Guy w/nothin better to do

Guy w/nothin better to do

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 1:34 am

sandyeggo_blue wrote:
Guy w/nothin better to do wrote:
sandyeggo_blue wrote:

As for your statement about his tenure being disappointing due to unrealistic expectations... I don't think you have a leg to stand on in this debate.  

We weren't that good with Rich Clod or Hoke, why should it instantly change with Harbaugh?  Don't forget, the players are basically kids (and the roster completely turns over every 4 years).  I'm not making excuses for Harbaugh, he has made far too many mistakes in his time at Michigan but yes Michigan fans expectations are unrealistic.  But as Hoke said, "This is Michigan".

when you buy a chevette (hoke) you go chevette speeds. When you think you're buy a corvette (harbaugh) you expect to go corvette speeds.

He coached up, out recruited, consistently won at high levels and was a top coach everywhere he was at before michigan. I expected the same (if not more) with the resources he was walking into at michigan.

I don't feel that my expectations were unrealistic.

I love Michigan, maybe not for as long as most people here but there are extenuating circumstances for the love-hate relationship. Regardless of which side I was on (like or dislike) I watched most of the games. Michigan hasn't really been relevant since 1997, there were a couple years thrown in there were they were on the cusp (2006, 2016) but other than that they're been meh. Why do you as a Michigan fan feel entitled to utter perfection? Are we as good as I want? No. Am I satisfied with Harbaugh? Hell no. At SDSU he had far lesser competition to play against. Stanford, OK the PAC-12 is quality but still not elite. The 49'ers, he had PROFESSIONAL athletes but yes that was impressive.

Michigan is the NY Yankees of college football. Either you love'em or you hate'em. Michigan ALWAYS gets everyone's best. It's not easy here. I don't think too many schools had the San Diego State or Stanford games circled on their calander.

We both agree that Rich Clod never received fair shot here, Harbaugh is getting a ton of time but the difficulties are still that same. Harbaugh is doing better than the West Virginny Joke but it's still not good enough for you. I tell ya, look at the contract Harbaugh signed, if he doesn't at least come in second in our division this year he is in fact as good as fired. Even if Michigan is a runner-up to presumably ohio state this year, next year it's B1G TEN CHAMPION or he's gone.

That being said I still believe your expectations are too high. Lloyd brought us a National Championship (with Moeller's players) but he did bring the Championship. He was fired and we ended up with Rich Clod. Be careful what you wish for.

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sandyeggo_blue wrote:
that's some first ballot hall of fame stalking on your part. How in the world did you find that guy. I guess the better question is why?
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sandyeggo_blue

sandyeggo_blue

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 6:54 pm

Guy w/nothin better to do wrote:
Why do you as a Michigan fan feel entitled to utter perfection?  

I never said perfection. Never once did I even hint at wanting him to be close to perfection. You are putting words in my mouth to make your point. See MY words in quotes below....


Guy w/nothin better to do wrote:
 At SDSU he had far lesser competition to play against.  
 

it was USD but I know what you're getting at. Anyway, I thought I made the point that the most impressive thing he did there was developing an NFL QB. A kid that was a zero star QB. again, ZERO STAR. Yet JH was able to develop him into a day 2 pick. Why, with all of the talent coming to UM, has JIM yet to recruit and develop a single QB?

sandyeggo_blue wrote:
Bottom line is he took USD from a bottom feeder and made them into a winning program. He also developed an NFL QB while he was at it.



Guy w/nothin better to do wrote:
Stanford, OK the PAC-12 is quality but still not elite.

Clearly you never stayed up late enough to watch PAC football being in the EST. USC and Oregon were absolutely elite teams. I will concede that USC was on the downtick but Oregon was building a consistent NC contender and had the playoffs been around they would have probably made them quite a few times. Maybe the PAC didn't offer elite opponents week after week but a quick google search returned this....


Year 1 at Stanford 4-8
Year 4 at Stanford 12-1

2007 Stanford played 4 ranked teams (2 others finished ranked). They went 1-3. That win was at number 2 USC. I would consider the USC win and elite win
2008 Stanford played 2 ranked teams (3 others finished ranked). They went 0-2. I'll give you that year.
2009 Stanford played 3 ranked teams. They went 3-1. They beat #8 Oregon that went to the rose bowl
2010 Stanford played 3 ranked teams. They went 2-1.


So not only did his teams consistently improve, they were also competitive in games against ranked teams. Why hasn't Michigan seen this upward trend?  Why can't Michigan beat a team on the road or beat a ranked team with the consistency that Stanford did?



sandyeggo_blue wrote:
He took Stanford from a bottom feeder and made them into a winning program. He also recruited and developed a sure fire first round hall of fame QB if he hadn't retired 10 years too soon.



sandyeggo_blue wrote:
I don't think anyone on here who had expectations of him recruiting on par with our rivals, having a winning record against our rivals, winning a B1G championship and being in the playoffs after year 6 would have unrealistic expectations. Not to mention the failure at QB development, the attrition, the lack of adjustment to the college game, etc, etc.

as of year 6 Harbaugh has been a failure.

Let me break down my above quote....

1. He should be recruiting on par with our rivals (not unrealistic)
2. He should have a winning record against our rivals (not unrealistic especially given MSU's slide of late)
3. In year six he should have won at least a division championship, if not a conference championship (not unrealistic)
4. In year six he should have developed at least one QB. Speight, Peters, McCaffrey, Milton. All of them had the tools. And don't argue for OKorn. He was a polished grad transfer and doesn't count in my eyes.


I fail to see where I said perfection but if you want to comb back through and tweek my words into "perfection" to make your point then feel free.

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wshoes

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 10:20 pm

My sense is that Jim had feelers out to the NFL this year but that the interest wasn't as strong as he might have hoped for. You had to either fire him or give him an extension. Both Jim and Mich bought time with the extension which involves a big pay cut and a less onerous buy out. Big turn around this year or it will be his last. I'm still hoping it happens- the turn around.
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Guy w/nothin better to do

Guy w/nothin better to do

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PostSubject: Re: change my mind   change my mind EmptySat Apr 24, 2021 1:55 pm

I'm just gonna set this right here:

https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh-josh-gattis-wolverines-college-football-big-ten?fbclid=IwAR21ltnQiJnYTjNBXqdXJxLnzO2RcY5x2yVYguRKSrhMx_Iyg8meftmbFtM


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sandyeggo_blue wrote:
that's some first ballot hall of fame stalking on your part. How in the world did you find that guy. I guess the better question is why?
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