GRIII pt. 3

GRIII needs to be embarrassed about his game tonight. Absolutely terrible. He's got 5 minutes to fix that.

Agree hail, he is nonexistent.

Not impressed with GRIII & Never have been.

neither are the refs. lavert and stauskas nearly mugged on those last two shots. No fouls called.

Agree

BillMFan wrote:

Not impressed with GRIII & Never have been.

GRIII has easily been our 2nd best player this season. Had a bad game on THE biggest stage, though.

I'm thinking he was sick tonight.

Just didn't look right

joe wrote:

I'm thinking he was sick tonight.

Just didn't look right

gotta give credit where credit is due and sparty just shut him down tonight. Made him a non factor for most of the night.

Hit FTs down the stretch which he didn't last year.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

GRIII needs to be embarrassed about his game tonight. Absolutely terrible. He's got 5 minutes to fix that.

Welcome to the dark side!

joe wrote:

I'm thinking he was sick tonight.

Just didn't look right

Yea that was it.

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

joe wrote:

I'm thinking he was sick tonight.

Just didn't look right

gotta give credit where credit is due and sparty just shut him down tonight. Made him a non factor for most of the night.

He was up against a freshmen. Payne would have mopped the floor with him.

fishgoblue22 wrote:

Hit FTs down the stretch which he didn't last year.

Yea that's what we need from him. Don't get me wrong FT are important but he needs to contribute more than a few FT's.

He was 2-8 FG 0-2 3pt and 1 Reb. This is what he is when he is not doing highlight reel dunks.

I agree Mgo.  I was just pointing out that he isn't a liability at the free throw line late in games.

He's come up big in other big games, it's testimony to our team that he can be off and we still win a big game on the road.

'shoes

wshoes wrote:

He's come up big in other big games, it's testimony to our team that he can be off and we still win a big game on the road.

'shoes

He has had good games, no doubt about it.  Still, he dissappears at times and other times he is maybe the 3rd or 4th leading scorer.  This is a guy that somehow projects first round in many mock drafts.  The son of the great Glen "Big Dog" Robinson who terrorized the Big 10.

Look at Nik's development and then look at Gr III.   Hell look at Caris's development and then look at GR III.  Can you honestly seen similar improvement in GR III's?

Great point about about how different players step up.  Should have its own thread really.  Walton, Irvin, Levert, Stauskus (obvi) and Robinson have all had big games this season.  You never know where the numbers are going to come from but you know they are going to come.

Nik has improved more than any player in the country, so using that to judge GRIII is pretty moot. Caris improved a lot, too.

GRIII seems like basically the same player as last year, which can seem like a let down, but not when you consider he good he was last year. GRIII led the Big Ten in Offensive Rating and led the Big Ten in Efficiency. I was hopeful that GRIII would improve and take the step into Superstar, but instead we have to settle for really good.

In terms of what they mean to our team: Stauskas is our Burke, GRIII is our Hardaway Jr.

What games would you cite that GRIII "Disappeared"? I'll give you one. Michigan St. Other than that......? I'll tell you right now to not count Duke. GRIII had the assignment of Jabari Parker. GRIII's job was to not let the 6'8 235lb Parker, who came into the game averaging 22ppg, beat Michigan. GRIII was quiet on offense, but he sure as hell was a big reason that Michigan didn't get blown out.

GRIII also has the ability to come up huge for Michigan. Michigan nearly beat #1 Arizona because of GRIII going for 20 points and 4 rebounds on 8 for 9 shooting.

17 points and 6 rebounds on 6 of 10 shooting vs Stanford. Held Stanford's best player, Powell, to 10 points.

14 points on 6 of 8 shooting @ Wisconsin. Held Wisconsin's best player, Dekker, to 5 of 13 shooting and 10 points.

14 points and 9 rebounds vs Iowa.


Listen, I was as upset about GRIII's performance last night as anyone, but the dude deserves props where they are due.

Here I thought we had turned a corner.

His game against Wisconsin was great offensively and defensively.

I can admit when GRIII has bad games, but you can't admit that GRIII is a really good player.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

I can admit when GRIII has bad games, but you can't admit that GRIII is a really good player.

8 points 3 rebs. Yep he is a really good player. Lowest scoring starter. Made some great cuts though. Tied his shoe in the first half. It's the little things though right? 

When I bring up something after a game, the whole board crucifies me. When someone else bumps something after a game, all is grand.

You don't even acknowledge when GRIII plays good, so it's pointless waste my time when he has a couple bad games.

He is having a worse year no doubt, but last year he had a phenomenal year (ORtg 131.8 and DRtg 100.6) and you still said it wasn't impressive. It is a waste of time discussing GRIII with you.

At the end of the day, GRIII is still our best or 2nd best defender. He is still averaging 13+ points and 4+ rebounds per game. He is a huge reason Michigan is where they are. Without GRIII in the lineup, our defense is really, really vulnerable.

Two quiet games doesn't change that.

"Win Shares" for 2013/2014
Stauskas 4.0
GRIII 2.5
LeVert 2.2
Horford 1.5
Morgan 1.4
Albrecht 1.3
Walton 1.3
McGary 1.1
Irvin 1.0

Stauskas is clearly our best player, but how anyone can sit here and say Glenn Robinson III isn't also good is ridiculous. Statistically, GRIII was our 2nd best player in 2012/2013 on a National Championship team. Statistically, GRIII is our 2nd best player this year on a team that is 8-0 in the Big Ten. Was anyone on here calling out THJ last year? No? Well GRIII is having a better season than THJ did last year.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

Stauskas is clearly our best player, but how anyone can sit here and say Glenn Robinson III isn't also good is ridiculous. Statistically, GRIII was our 2nd best player in 2012/2013 on a National Championship team. Statistically, GRIII is our 2nd best player this year on a team that is 8-0 in the Big Ten. Was anyone on here calling out THJ last year? No? Well GRIII is having a better season than THJ did last year.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I like GRIII a lot. I like what he brings to the team. I just think some fans had these ridiculous expectations for him. They thought he was going to be a 20 point a night guy and be unstopable. If these fans really watched his game they would know that he isn't that guy. He doesn't have a great outside shot.

"Ridiculous expectations." Player comes in after sky rocketing up recruiting rankings. He is #2 player at his position and #11 nationally according to rivals. He is son to the great Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson who is probably one of the top 5 players in B1G history.

What are your expectations for him? Have a pulse?

If Derrick Green never has over 700 yds. Rushing while at Michigan are you happy with that? "Geez peoples expectations of him are too high." I expect Green to rush for over 1,000 yds. next year barring injury. Michigan wants to run the ball. He is going to most likely be the starting RB. He was the #1 RB in the nation out of HS. Sorry but the expectations go up when the "hype" goes up. You know what happens when guys like Derrick Green bust year in and year out? You turn into ND when Charlie Weiss was coach. Players go sell shoes and brag about their HS days and coaches get fired.

Coach B doesn't have that issue because he can develop players as well as anyone in the country. Yet GR III regressing right before our eyes. I am not sitting here pounding on why Spike isn't scoring 18 a night. Know one knew who the hell he was prior to last year. You could call him a pleasant surprise I suppose.

GRIII should be a guy who can score points. He should be a guy who can pick up the slack when Nik has an off night. He should be a guy who can hit a 3 every once in a while. He is 1-10 in the last 4 games. He gets wide open looks too.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

When I bring up something after a game, the whole board crucifies me. When someone else bumps something after a game, all is grand.

You don't even acknowledge when GRIII plays good, so it's pointless waste my time when he has a couple bad games.

He is having a worse year no doubt, but last year he had a phenomenal year (ORtg 131.8 and DRtg 100.6) and you still said it wasn't impressive. It is a waste of time discussing GRIII with you.

Didn't force you to respond Hail. Don't feel obligated to either. I pass over a lot of your posts. I find it ironic that did take the time to post twice after noting it was a waste of your time.

Keep the nerd stats. The stats people track these days are getting ridiculous as far as I am concerned but hey some people couldn't talk sports without them. Keep supporting the blogs they got to eat too.

It's funny when people talk about Lebron or Durant being good they talk about points, rebounds, assists, defense. They don't need things like ORtg and DRtg. What's Lebrons win shares? I mean clearly if he doesn't rank in the top 5 in win shares he sucks as a player. Where does win shares rank into the Naismith award?

Thanks for the laughs Hail.

He only took 6 shots last night. He plays within the context of the offense. You don't see any 4-17 nights for him. He is also a good defender. I still like him, a lot.

'shoes

MgoBlue wrote:

"Ridiculous expectations."  Player comes in after sky rocketing up recruiting rankings.  He is #2 player at his position and #11 nationally according to rivals.  He is son to the great Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson who is probably one of the top 5 players in B1G history.

What are your expectations for him?  Have a pulse?  

If Derrick Green never has over 700 yds. Rushing while at Michigan are you happy with that?  "Geez peoples expectations of him are too high."  I expect Green to rush for over 1,000 yds. next year barring injury.  Michigan wants to run the ball.  He is going to most likely be the starting RB.  He was the #1 RB in the nation out of HS.  Sorry but the expectations go up when the "hype" goes up.  You know what happens when guys like Derrick Green bust year in and year out?  You turn into ND when Charlie Weiss was coach.  Players go sell shoes and brag about their HS days and coaches get fired.  

Coach B doesn't have that issue because he can develop players as well as anyone in the country.  Yet GR III regressing right before our eyes.  I am not sitting here pounding on why Spike isn't scoring 18 a night.  Know one knew who the hell he was prior to last year.  You could call him a pleasant surprise I suppose.  

GRIII should be a guy who can score points.  He should be a guy who can pick up the slack when Nik has an off night.  He should be a guy who can hit a 3 every once in a while.  He is 1-10 in the last 4 games. He gets wide open looks too.

Actually, I think him being Big Dog's kid inflated his recruiting stats, and inflated the expectations fans have for him. He is a solid player. Not a great player. He has helped this team win. And, it is great that UM is winning with him being a non-factor offensively, because everyone's confidence is building.

If he could harness his athleticism to the offensive and defensive sides of the ball he would be a top 5 pick. He just seems to be lethargic on the court for part/most of some games.

Lol.... right, because stats like Player Efficiency Rating, Offensive Rating and Defensive Rating are irrelevant. You just lost some credibility there.

GRIII, statistically, was the 2nd best player on a NATIONAL RUNNER UP team. He was the most efficient player in the Big Ten last year. That is not a "700 yard rushing season".

Yes, Beilein is great at developing players, but do all of Beilein's players take Stauskas and LeVert like leaps? No, they don't. Tim Hardaway Jr., Matt Vogrich, Carlton Brundidge, Evan Smotrycz, Stu Douglass, Manny Harris, etc. etc. are guys that never really "developed". Heck, Tim Hardaway Jr. regressed much more his 2nd year than GRIII has.

Also, when you were the most efficient player in the Big Ten, it's foolish to expect some sort of astronomical leap in performance. To you, Player Efficiency is just some made up mumbo-jumbo, though.

MgoBlue wrote:

It's funny when people talk about Lebron or Durant being good they talk about points, rebounds, assists, defense.  They don't need things like ORtg and DRtg.  What's Lebrons win shares?  I mean clearly if he doesn't rank in the top 5 in win shares he sucks as a player.  Where does win shares rank into the Naismith award?  

Thanks for the laughs Hail.

LOL. I didn't even make it to this paragraph my first go around, but are you seriously asking this question? The NBA most definitely uses PER (Player Efficiency Rating) in evaluating players. NBA draft scouts most definitely use advanced analytics in the draft process.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

PER
1. Kevin Durant
2. LeBron James
3. Chris Paul

EWA (Estimated Wins Added / Win Shares) rankings:
1. Kevin Durant
2. LeBron James
3. Kevin Love

Last year....
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Kobe Bryant


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9980160/nba-how-analytics-movement-evolved-nba

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/PerDiem-130624/ranking-prospects-warp


Now for why Tempo-Free stats are much better than simply "points, assists, etc." let me explain (though I know you won't listen). Let's look at UCLA. UCLA plays in a conference that is known for terrible defense. UCLA averages 72 possessions per game. Michigan plays in a conference known to play good defense. Michigan averages 64 possessions per game. If UCLA had 72 possessions and scored 72 points and Michigan had 64 possessions and scored 70 points, what offense had the better game? Without "nerd stats" like Offensive Efficiency (Points Per Possession) one might say "UCLA scored more, they had a better offensive game". "Nerd stats" allow for "nerds" to look at numbers that aren't influenced by tempo (possessions per game).

The stats really aren't that complicated. You will see me (and these "nerd stat" blogs) use fancy terms like AdjO and AdjD which you will write off because you are ignorant. However, a closer looks would show you that they aren't that complicated and very, very, informative.

"AdjO - Adjusted offensive efficiency - An estimate of the offensive efficiency (points scored per 100 possessions) a team would have against the average D-I defense.

AdjD - Adjusted defensive efficiency - An estimate of the defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 possessions) a team would have against the average D-I offense.

AdjT - Adjusted tempo - An estimate of the tempo (possessions per 40 minutes) a team would have against the team that wants to play at an average D-I tempo."

Here is some info on KenPoms POY:

"The kPOY is not meant to predict who will win the Naismith or Wooden awards. This is a standalone honor designed to identify the most valuable player in the game, free of reputation, future potential, or amount of times the player appears on Big Monday. I’ll track the candidates every week until tourney time, and then we’ll have a season-ending awards ceremony two days after the title game. (Yes, the kPOY will be the one award that includes NCAA tournament play. About time."

"To refresh: In order to determine the impact of departing players, a player’s minutes were weighted by the amount of value they provided to the team. On offense, I used a combination a player’s offensive rating and his possessions used, which was valued relative to his team’s offensive rating. On defense, I used the proportion of his team’s Dean Oliver-formulated stops that he was responsible for.

The beauty of this method is that both the offensive and defensive value of a player are captured in a way that correlates with team improvement. The drawback is that it’s difficult to measure defensive value. But the work on the preseason ratings indicates that the “stops method” is better than ignoring defense altogether, and that’s a start.

Valuing minutes in this way accounts for a player’s value relative to his teammates, but this isn’t exactly what we’d like to know. It’s also important that the player is contributing to some sort of team success. This where the more subjective part comes into play, and I have thrown in a dash of team strength based on my ratings. OK, more than a dash. We don’t want Vlad Moldoveanu winning this thing! There’s enough team influence such that it’s hard to win the award if your team is not in the top ten and nearly impossible if it’s not in the top 20."

And based on that, here is his Top 10:




But yes, things like the Wooden Award are much, much better indicators. You know, the same award that left Nik Stauskas off the mid-season top 25 players in the country? Objective stats have no business in a discussion like this, you are so right.

wshoes wrote:

He only took 6 shots last night. He plays within the context of the offense. You don't see any 4-17 nights for him. He is also a good defender. I still like him, a lot.

'shoes

Wow we give guys credit for anything these days. Break out the 8th place ribbons! You want to like him that's fine. Not saying I don't like him BUT I am not going to pat him on the back for going 1-5 and say gee good job not throwing up 15 shots.

fishgoblue22 wrote:

Actually, I think him being Big Dog's kid inflated his recruiting stats, and inflated the expectations fans have for him.  He is a solid player.  Not a great player.  He has helped this team win.  And, it is great that UM is winning with him being a non-factor offensively, because everyone's confidence is building.

Agree and that's pretty much all I am saying. He is a lot of hype and isn't living up to expectations. He's not a first rounder as many seem to think he is.