OT: Eliminating kickoffs and punts

I heard Lebetard blathering on about this, along with a few others and I have a feeling the liberals are going to ruin football. It's only a matter of time. The only thing that could compete with money is this agenda. Let's just make it flag football and be done with it if it's going to go in this direction. I know I would risk my neck to play the best game on earth for the veterans minimum.

People get hurt playing football in the backyard, and they're not even getting paid. Let's make that illegal too. Let's outlaw fire fighters too, because they may just get hurt trying to save the lives of others.

If this were to happen to football, how would this change your view on it? I would guess it would change college football as well.

I would have loved the no punt rule two weeks ago ... on a serious note football is a rough sport just like hockey ... if you are afraid of getting hit then don't play the sport , very simple .... understand all the worry about concussions in the past , but that is just it ... the past .... they have all the protocols in place now , so the potential for lingering affects has been minimized .... football without kickoffs and punts and returns is not football ... end of story

well people would argue that players don't know the risk of concussion. fair enough, but I say that people know there is a risk of getting hurt period

Whether you know or fully understand the significance of the injury now or its future effect is a moot point IMO.

People know there is chance that you can get hurt. Sprained pinkie finger, broken vertebrae or death. it can all happen. It should be up to the player to understand that they can get hurt and not up to the player to understand the the broad scope or full effect of that injury. sorry but not every player is a world renowned brain surgeon.

every player knows there is a risk, let them make the decision to return a punt or kickoff. don't take that decision from them.

Great post. All part of the wussification of America. It's why we are losing respect around the world because we are becoming a country full of pussies.

Of course, as usual, "South Park" spoke to this issue already. See 09-26-15, season 16, episode 8, "Sarcastaball".

I'm actually fine with it as it currently is. Very few kickoffs are returned currently although most are fieled in the endzone. The player has the option of bringing it out. Punts are about 50/50, althoughwith Peppers it seems to be more 80/20. He typically fields the punt, calls fair-catch, and then non-shalantly places the ball on the gound. If he doesnt he usually gets tackled by the punter.

IMHO kickoss, punts should not be eliminated. I didn't hear or see the ppiece in question but I doubt it goes anywhere.

Additionally, I find it infuriating that anytime some idiot says something that you disagree with you instantly call them a liberal. How exactly is the word "liberal" a bad thing? With basically every war was the military not trying to "liberate" someone? Why then use "liberal" as a denigrative term?

And no 'eggo, players do not fully understand the risks of a neurological injury, but tht is not to be discussed here.

Kudos for your third paragraph, NBO.

dwoody wrote:

Kudos for your third paragraph, NBO.

Just one of many reasons why republicans infuriate me. To borrow a quote from my father (who was a Marine and a republican) they have "constipation of thought and diarhhea of the mouth."

TheNewBlueOrder wrote:

dwoody wrote:

Kudos for your third paragraph, NBO.

Just one of many reasons why republicans infuriate me.  To borrow a quote from my father (who was a Marine and a republican) they have "constipation of thought and diarhhea of the mouth."

Just one of many reasons why republicans infuriate me. To borrow a quote from my father (who was a Marine and a republican) they have "constipation of thought and diarhhea of the mouth."

+100 for your father!!! Service and quote!!

Go Blue!!

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

well people would argue that players don't know the risk of concussion. fair enough, but I say that people know there is a risk of getting hurt period

Whether you know or fully understand the significance of the injury now or its future effect is a moot point IMO.

People know there is chance that you can get hurt. Sprained pinkie finger, broken vertebrae or death. it can all happen. It should be up to the player to understand that they can get hurt and not up to the player to understand the the broad scope or full effect of that injury. sorry but not every player is a world renowned brain surgeon.

every player knows there is a risk, let them make the decision to return a punt or kickoff. don't take that decision from them.

I agree with this 100%. Let the players vote on the game. They play it, and they should have the final say on safety.

See you don't understand. Republicans always know what is best for everybody, because they are richer and smarter, and have wasted more money getting their education and have not used any borrowed money. So they need you to listen and be guided to make their lives better.

It's a myth that Republicans are supported by all of the rich "Fat Cats"

" 20 of the top 32 donors lean Democrat, while only 6 lean Republican. The rest are on the fence."

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/02/116056-wall-street-bankers-top-donors-agree-democrat-party-new-party-rich/

As for the term "liberal" I was a proud liberal in my youth. Now I have major issues with both parties. I will point out though that liberals have stopped calling themselves liberals. Progressive is now the preferred term.

"Progressive" is preferred because it is more truly descriptive of the thinking and philosophy, and the very term "liberal" has had its meaning distorted and villainized by certain segments of society (at least in 'murica).

I consider myself a conservative, not a republican. I've seen progressive ideas and laws fail everywhere. You can't simply tax the poor into wealth by taxing the wealthy out of it.

The progressive left has gone so far left, embracing socialism, Bernie Sanders, that if allowed to continue will see the United States crash.

With that said, I'm not a fan of Teump either. He is a loud mouth blow hard.

America is about freedom. The government, whether Democrat or Republican should have NO right to tell football players how their game should be played. Period. They should have more power in deciding how the game is played.

fishgoblue22 wrote:

 You can't simply tax the poor into wealth by taxing the wealthy out of it.

The progressive left has gone so far left, embracing socialism, Bernie Sanders, that if allowed to continue will see the United States crash.

I keep hearing that no-more-taxes-to-benefit-society-as-a-whole type of argument, but the United States has not spent adequately to really help the poor in my somewhat long life. Meantime, there is tons of proof about the futility of the Reagan trickle-down theory, which has been tried for years and never worked worth a shit. If the rich get more, they keep it and shelter it through various financial machinations. When taxes on the wealthy were high (in my lifetime), the Untied States achieved much and there was a robust middle class with job security and good pay (long-gone today), spending money, taking trips, and buying things.

This country's governments need an infusion of $$ to finance a massive rebuild of deteriorating infrastructure, which will create more jobs, more spending by the people working at these jobs, more demand, and more revenue. Feel the Bern!!!

Well, FB can start doing what our powder puff teams do, if team A doesn't want to go for it on 4th down, simply move the ball 40yds team B takes over from there.

NewBlueOrder, have to disagree on players knowing about head injuries. I take care of sports injuries at a HS. We do baseline testing before we leave for camp. FB team goes to Hillsdale College for first 4 days of camp. The Sunday night before practice starts on Monday, I talk to team about injuries including concussion/head injuries. Coach tells team tonight is the healthiest you're going to be all yr. Coach adds there's a difference between being sore/hurt and being injured. He tells kids come see me if you're not sure.

As fishgoblue said about wussification, coach doesn't kids sitting out because there calfs, legs or shoulders are sore & simply doesn't want to practice. Coach wants to build toughness. I agree with that, but my job is the safety of the kid so I have decide if he's being a pussy or is really injured.

As for head injuries, I will ALWAYS error on the side of caution. Here's where as asst. coach and I disagree. Kid tells me I have a headache, I evaluate, look for signs and symptoms of a concussion. Now 20-25yrs ago if a kid came to me with a headache I probably said you're OK. Now what I know about concussions plus a million lawyers ready to sue your ass because I let Johnny play with a headache. Have to be over cautious. I follow protocols, work with one our team docs who specializes in concussions on return to play.

Have to believe some NFL, college kids and even HS kids are afraid to tell a coach/medical staff about injuries/concussion. Afraid to lose starting job or for NFL released by team. I believe all players are made aware of head injuries/concussions.

Some of the worst injuries I've seen have happened after an INT. A kid suddenly turns to chase down the interceptor he gets blind sided, gets concussed, had a kid tear ACL, MCL after being hit low. So after INT. the play should be whistled dead? Football is a tough, sometimes brutal sport.

BoLeach, agree with you kick-off/punts better not EVER be taken out of football.

Or we turn it into flag football, then at halftime do what the cheerleaders from the 2 HS teams do. Get the 2 teams together have some cupcakes, cookies & sit around and laugh and sing songs!!!

EJinGA wrote:

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

well people would argue that players don't know the risk of concussion. fair enough, but I say that people know there is a risk of getting hurt period

Whether you know or fully understand the significance of the injury now or its future effect is a moot point IMO.

People know there is chance that you can get hurt. Sprained pinkie finger, broken vertebrae or death. it can all happen. It should be up to the player to understand that they can get hurt and not up to the player to understand the the broad scope or full effect of that injury. sorry but not every player is a world renowned brain surgeon.

every player knows there is a risk, let them make the decision to return a punt or kickoff. don't take that decision from them.

I agree with this 100%. Let the players vote on the game. They play it, and they should have the final say on safety.

As we have covered many times over on this board, no they don't. However I'm still in favor of football. I love what they've done with kickoffs, but I digress....

booboo wrote:

NewBlueOrder, have to disagree on players knowing about head injuries. I take care of sports injuries at a HS. We do baseline testing before we leave for camp. FB team goes to Hillsdale College for first 4 days of camp. The Sunday night before practice starts on Monday, I talk to team about injuries including concussion/head injuries. Coach tells team tonight is the healthiest you're going to be all yr. Coach adds there's a difference between being sore/hurt and being injured. He tells kids come see me if you're not sure.

They know the term "head injury" but don't understand how serious it is.  They also have the ignorance of youth to deal with.  That ever-so popular fallacy of "It will never happen to me".

I love football too... Would I risk my melon to be able to play it, and make good money doing it? You betcha.

TheNewBlueOrder wrote:

They know the term "head injury" but don't understand how serious it is.

I have been saying all along that they know there is a risk of injury because they know there is a chance that they can get hurt.

I think we both agree that, what level of competition (pee wee, high school, college, or pro) they should be allowed to make their own choice about that risk is an entirely different debate.

you have been saying they don't know the extent of the injury and IMO that is a different point to argue than my point of them knowing there is a risk, that an injury could happen.

you just said they know the term "head injury" but don't understand how serious it is.

So NBO, does knowing or understanding a term that directly relates to the risk not equate to knowing that there is a risk? can you finally agree to my point.

EJinGA wrote:

I love football too... Would I risk my melon to be able to play it, and make good money doing it? You betcha.

No offense EJ but no you don't know what a serious neurological injury entails. It's an etremely broad and complex condition. No two injuries are alike. I've said many times before that I'd risk injury if I could have played at an elite level but even back then I didn't know. Now that I do know (although couldn't play anymore) I still would play, just not be as reckless as I would have years ago.

I do think that there would be a significant number of kids who wouldn't play if they knew the potential adverse affects. Already there are an increaseing number of parents who won't let their children play. Kids are going to get hurt, you can't protect them completely but this new head injury awareness is changing American culture.

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

TheNewBlueOrder wrote:

They know the term "head injury" but don't understand how serious it is.

I have been saying all along that they know there is a risk of injury because they know there is a chance that they can get hurt.

I think we both agree that, what level of competition (pee wee, high school, college, or pro) they should be allowed to make their own choice about that risk is an entirely different debate.

you have been saying they don't know the extent of the injury and IMO that is a different point to argue than my point of them knowing there is a risk, that an injury could happen.

you just said they know the term "head injury" but don't understand how serious it is.

So NBO, does knowing or understanding a term that directly relates to the risk not equate to knowing that there is a risk? can you finally agree to my point.

My main point is that they don't understand what it is. Kids think, "So what? If I get hurt I'll get better over time like a pulled hamstring, broken fibula, separated shoulder, etc." My point is that it is not that simple, you won't get better. The human brain is an amazing organ. It is responsible for evedrything tht we do (and this is weird and unproven but I believe that the power of the mind can allow you to perform tasks that are impossible). We're not going to go into that here and I can't replicate my theories but I have done some astonishing things that someone of my size simply cannot do.

Kids do not know the risks, parents do not know the risks, Doctors do not know the risks (although they have a better idea), no one knows the risks until it is too late. When it's too late there is nothing that you can do, it's too late.

It may sound like I'm for abolishing violent activities, but nothig could be further from the truth. Hockey is quite possibly my favorite spectator sport even though I never played. Hockey has more injuries than football but I'm still in favor of both Hockey and football. The only sport that I have honest to goodness concerns about is boxing.

Injuries will happen, kids are going to get hurt. There is no way to prevent it unless you like in a bubble and even then George Costanza might take you out.

NBO, I think I've finally found the disconnect between us....


you talk risk

I talk chance


replace risk with chance in my posts.

people know there is a chance they can get hurt. it should be their decision to play from there. don't take that decision to return a kick or punt away because it fits an agenda. the agenda that fish so aptly describes as the wussification of america.

I think that wussification is actually knowledge. No one knew about serious injuries years ago, now people are aware that they exist but still don't understand them. In the old days there used to be asylum's to houe the mentally ill, they are all closed now (with the exception of seriously ill hospitals). Everyone sees "those people" in society everyday. Most intelligent people do not fear someone with a mental imbalance because they understand that there is no threat. The people that fear individual's with mental illnesses are the more ignorant people of society.

risk vs. chance....

potato, potAto. I'm still saying that kids, parents, etc. know that they can get hurt but they just have no clue the severity of it. Bones mend, scars fade, brain cells do not regenerate. As previously discussed the brain controle everything.

NBO, as I stated in a post above, I take care of HS sports injuries. I have seen 1st hand how concussions affect the kids. One kid on the 1st day of full contact back in august received a severe concussion. He went directly to hospital. 3 months later he still has headaches on occasions, sometimes has troubling remembering things as well. Do I know, do the docs know, does anyone know a yr. from now when he's in college will he still have lingering problems? 3yrs from now? 5yrs? 10yrs? No, nobody knows for sure.

2 other kids got concussions but never said anything to me or coaches until next day. One kid told me he remembers the hit but just shook it off didn't think it was a big deal. Wasn't until school next morning when started having headaches, noise in hallways hurting his head, didn't feel well. He saw me after school after evaluating him called parents told them your son has signs & symptoms of a concussion. He missed 2 weeks, cleared by a doctor. You know what, the kid was pissed he had to miss 2 weeks. He couldn't wait to get back. He's a soph., plays middle LB for varsity team. Even after he was cleared I kept checking with him everyday to make sure he felt good.

This is the big difference between say a sprained ankle or shoulder and a concussion. I can tell if ankle or shoulder is still affecting a kids play. If a kid say he feels great, denies any symptoms of a concussion I have to believe him.

NBO this where I disagree. There's way to much info out there about concussions plus the pre-season meetings where I talk to parents and kids about head injuries. They know the risk, they know what could happen. I have a lot of knowledge, the docs have even more than I do. I stay up to date on any new info about head injuries.

NBO you're right on this, no 2 head injuries are alike and no one knows for sure how these HS kids or even NCAAFB/NFL men will feel 10, 20, 30yrs from now.

Talking about parents not letting kids play FB, our HS has just over 1400 kids so around 700 boys. This yr. we had the highest turnout in 10yrs. 45 for varsity, 27-JV, 29-frosh. So doing my math 14% of the boys play FB. The one middle school that feeds into our HS, they have 2 teams, about 35 kids on each team. Think pretty good numbers considering all the info about head injuries/concussions.

Will numbers go up or down nation wide in the next few yrs, 10yrs from now? Have no idea.

You say that information is known about head injuries, no it isn't. People know of the existence of a head injury, but not what it entails. They falsely assume that it's like any other injury and you'll get better. They think that they'll heal and out will all be over with. That it's not the case. Even mild concussions cause CTE later in life. Take a more serious injury like a Traumatic Brain Injury. I don't want to say that your life is over but yeah, it's different.

Kids have that feeling of invincibility, it doesn't exist. Your examples are commonplace, I hate saying it but just wait. Did either of those kids lose consciousness?

TheNewBlueOrder wrote:

EJinGA wrote:

I love football too... Would I risk my melon to be able to play it, and make good money doing it? You betcha.

No offense EJ but no you don't know what a serious neurological injury entails.  It's an etremely broad and complex condition.  No two injuries are alike.  I've said many times before that I'd risk injury if I could have played at an elite level but even back then I didn't know.  Now that I do know (although couldn't play anymore) I still would play, just not be as reckless as I would have years ago.

I do think that there would be a significant number of kids who wouldn't play if they knew the potential adverse affects.  Already there are an increaseing number of parents who won't let their children play.  Kids are going to get hurt, you can't protect them completely but this new head injury awareness is changing American culture.

Sure. I have a debilitating condition that I did NOT get from football or sports. Dogs can kill you. Sex can kill you. Driving can kill you. Let's ban all these activities because someone can get hurt. A computer worker can get carpal tunnel syndrome from typing. They know the risks, and do it anyway. A barge can tip over, so let's prevent tourism.

Stop trying to tell people what's best for them. If it's best for you, don't play it. Let's stick our big noses into Euro football and tell them to change their game while we are at it. They get hurt too.

EJinGA wrote:

TheNewBlueOrder wrote:

EJinGA wrote:

I love football too... Would I risk my melon to be able to play it, and make good money doing it? You betcha.

No offense EJ but no you don't know what a serious neurological injury entails.  It's an etremely broad and complex condition.  No two injuries are alike.  I've said many times before that I'd risk injury if I could have played at an elite level but even back then I didn't know.  Now that I do know (although couldn't play anymore) I still would play, just not be as reckless as I would have years ago.

I do think that there would be a significant number of kids who wouldn't play if they knew the potential adverse affects.  Already there are an increaseing number of parents who won't let their children play.  Kids are going to get hurt, you can't protect them completely but this new head injury awareness is changing American culture.

Sure. I have a debilitating condition that I did NOT get from football or sports. Dogs can kill you. Sex can kill you. Driving can kill you. Let's ban all these activities because someone can get hurt. A computer worker can get carpal tunnel syndrome from typing. They know the risks, and do it anyway. A barge can tip over, so let's prevent tourism.

Stop trying to tell people what's best for them. If it's best for you, don't play it. Let's stick our big noses into Euro football and tell them to change their game while we are at it. They get hurt too.  

The thing here is look at the high proportion of former NFL players, who alledgedly knew of the same risks, who are struggling now. Almost all of them say that if they knew that this would be the result of playing football they definitely would have played more cautiously. Then there was that huge lawsuit againstthe NFL which the NFL settled.

https://www.nflconcussionsettlement.com/

AGAIN, I AM NOT AGAINST FOOTBALL IN GENERAL. It just seems like people are using their absurd arguments as a way to frama me as a guy who is against football. I'm surprised that you didn't use the famous NRA line that "Spoons made me fat." Think about it people....