There must have been some serious locker room issues last season.

Every article out there talks about chemestry or family or leadership. Must have been pretty bad.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/04/column_family_matters_in_footb.html

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/04/brady_hoke_regrets_not_fixing.html

http://www.freep.com/article/20140419/SPORTS06/304190026/1054/U-M-s-Hoke-sees-more-leadership-year

http://www.freep.com/article/20140417/SPORTS06/304170033/1054/SPORTS06/Hoke-praises-U-M-s-chemistry-leadership-spring-camp-ends

http://www.freep.com/article/20140417/SPORTS06/304170033/1054/SPORTS06/Hoke-praises-U-M-s-chemistry-leadership-spring-camp-ends

Didn't read the articles so I will take your word for it. To me this is a failure of Hokes more than anything else. The one m-fing thing he was supposed to be good at was leadership among the athletes. We all know about his navy seal training trip he does every year. He also instituted a leadership class the second he got on campus. He has a player council to help with discipline and accountability. If it's falling flat it's on him.

That's my take. I know most will read it and think poor Hoke was doomed by bad seed players. Bullshit! He liked last years team by his own admission. Is he really this blind, deaf and dumb????

Sorry but seeing the one thing that was supposed to be his strength ended up as a weakness last year I get pissed off again.

I don't disagree that it falls mainly on Hoke. But players have to lead amongst themselves too.

The coach needs to see when the "appointed" leaders aren't getting the job done and make some changes.

I can go along with that Fish. Last season was shit. IMO he missed some opportunities to set some examples. Kick a couple of them off the team and see if that gets people shit together.

I want to be excited for this years team BUT I can't. Last year he liked the team. We saw how that worked out. I refuse to buy into that this team really likes each other. Hokes credibility is suspect at best. He can stop the interviews as far as I am concerned. 50% of what comes out of his mouth is coach babble and the other 50% is pure bullshit.

I don't know why this is firing me up. Thought I was over last season but I guess I am not.

1. I'm trying to read between the lines but the statements are all very cryptic (even from Clark). I suspect Taylor may have serious leadership problems and was at times a poison in the locker room. Possibly saying all the right things but not following through. An "all sizzle no steak" kind of guy in the leadership department. Of course I have no proof but the signs certainly point that way. If true it bums me out.

2. Clark is a senior leader this year and is notoriously very vocal. There are 20Jrs and 12 Srs on the team this year. That makes for a very young team. I hope the younger guys are ready for open criticism from a very outspoken guy like Clark. If not , that could cause a real problem.

3. Guys are "behind" Jake this year? Why weren't they last year?

4. I like the 4 leader reps from each class model. I suspect Jabrill will be one of the freshman.

I've detailed what I think was wrong with the captain picks from last year.

1. Lewan. One of the best players on the team, but always seemed to be on the verge of exploding. Not great leadership personality if you ask me.

2. Avery and Gordon. May be good leaders, but younger players won't follow backups. They want to emulate players on the field. Plain and simple.

3. Ryan. May be a leader, but you can't lead from the rehab table.

That was a toxic mix of captains from the start. Hoke should have stepped in and changed the vote or vetoed the vote.

I work in HS athletics, I see a huge correlation between how a coach disciplines, how good the captains are & teams winning division/conference titles, districts, etc. vs teams having losing records.

Know you might say comparing M & college FB to HS FB is not the same. But I believe you can compare the two.

Our HS FB team over the yrs has been between good, very good & great. We're not a State of Michigan powerhouse program, but can hold our own against the good/very good teams.

New coach was hired in 05', program went to hell. No discipline, no leaders, played favorites with the stars of team, coaches last 3yrs team went 1-8, 3-6, 4-5.

New coach in 12', his 1st two yrs, 8-2 & 9-2, back-to-back division champs, upset Southfield & M McDowell in this yrs playoffs.

DISCIPLINE, ACCOUNTABILITY, NO EXCUSES, DON'T BE LATE!!! 4 of the things that is very important to coach. Ex., this yr., a capt. was 25 secs late to meeting. Punishment, know this big red dummies that teams use in practice to practice tackling, blocking? Had to push one, 5 times 100 yds each, everyday for a week. Game day dress code includes nice shoes NO GYM SHOES!! Kid forgot once, yep same punishment. Game day, QUIET at 3pm, want headphones for music, fine, but no fucking around, quiet to about 5:50 when special teams go out for warm-ups.

Capts. last 2 yrs., fantastic!!Not afraid to speak up, lead by example, kids looked up to capts.

Fish, you hit it on the head!! Rather a 22 yr senior capt. or a 17/18 HS capt., you can't be always in training room, can't be a back-up if you want to be a leader & respected by teammates.

Fish, as for Lewan, we had a kid capt of 12' team, he had an edge about him. Didn't play dirty but played aggressive. In 11' as a jr., under old coach crossed the line, played dirty. in 12', new coach who set the rules, this kid understood don't cross that line or ass will be on bench.

Point is if kids understand rules, understand the discipline starts at the top, coach follows own rules he set, can't play favorites, you'll have a team that'll bust their ass for each other & coaches.

Don't know what goes on in M locker room, how it is run. But sounds like something is not right. I believe it starts with Hoke, he has to be the leader.

This ultimately falls on the head coach. These players take on the personality of the coach, and by all accounts, Hoke is in over his head. The players took notice of it, and responded accordingly.

MgoBlue: "Hokes credibility is suspect at best".

Fish: "Hoke should have stepped in and changed the vote or vetoed the vote."

Boo: "I believe it starts with Hoke, he has to be the leader."

Razz: "This ultimately falls on the head coach."

michmike: My point in posting those is to point out everyone's tendency to point the finger at Hoke. While I have mixed feelings to beat the band about the subject, two things I cannot deny I firmly believe:

(1) There definitely WERE serious issues within the program (off the field, in the locker room, etc.) last year.

(2) I have to grant all of you your basic point, regarding Hoke's culpability. Since becoming a history buff 35 years ago, and applying it to sports (which I've been a "buff" off since childhood), I've always been firmly convinced of the following truism:

Whenever you have a hierarchical structure---be it a corporation, sports program, educational institution, or the government of a state or nation---the man at the top has to take the ultrimate credit---or blame.

So, complex as our locker room cancer(s) may have been, I have to go along with you and point the biggest finger at the HEAD coach.  As the "man up top", it's his job to oversee (adequately, not cursorily) what's going on below (same as it was Paterno's, and Spanier's, during the Sandusky scandal)...and to react accordingly, and promptly.

well said Mike.

C'mon, 'Shoes, you can do better than that! Three little words??

Tear my blather apart, disagree, explain your agreement, or something!!!

wshoes wrote:

well said Mike.

Ditto<- said it in one word.  

michmike wrote:

C'mon, 'Shoes, you can do better than that!  Three little words??

Tear my blather apart, disagree, explain your agreement, or something!!!

All right- I take it back!

Mike, at least you're getting words. Sandy agrees without even using a single word!

"+1"