Should BIG give PSU the boot?

Just curious what everyone thinks. I know current players and coaches have nothing to do with it, just wondering what people think.

IMHO it was the higher-ups at the University. At the very least they should be put on probation. I saw one article today that was advocating for the "Death Penalty" for PSU football.

No way, can't kick PSU out of BIG. When the shit hit the fan, I wanted to believe JoPa didn't do anything illegal, did what he thought was best. As we learned today, he was part of a cover-up. This story isn't going away any time soon. Still have perjury trial of Curley and Schultz, gotta believe the pres., Spanierd, sp?, could go be charged with something after todays story. Theres going to alot of lawsuits, probably settled out of court. I'm waiting to see who starts talking 1st to possibly save their ass. If JoPa where alive, he might have been charged after todays findings. So its going to get ugly. If it comes out all 4 men where equally to blame, I'm guessing jail time for the 3, with JoPa recieving his sentence from the devil.

I feel sorry for Paterno's family, who are going to see their husband/fathers name dragged thru hell, and he's not here to defend himself.

I guess I'll wait for trials and verdicts, when the accused get their day in court, on whether to punish FB program with probation, lost of bowl games.

Not the boot but I believe the B1G should administer some sort of punishment to show the rest of the nation that it does take this situation seriously.

BTW I heard today that the NCAA will have no part in pursuing or enforcing a punishment because Penn St broke no rules in regards to competitive advantages. I'd argue that a cover up that allows a D coordinator to stay on as a coach constitutes a competitive advantage but I don't know the NCAA rule book very well at all.

My sparty buddy thinks that Penn State should not only be kicked out of the B1G, but their football program should be destroyed. It's difficult to argue with him as sexually abusing boys in very bad, but I don't think that they should receive the death penalty.

I'll look for a link stating the Penn State will not receive any punishment from the NCAA as no competitive advantage took place.

http://www.bradenton.com/2012/07/12/4112518/some-experts-say-ncaa-likely-wont.html

Never heard of this paper but it's what I found...

booboo wrote:

I feel sorry for Paterno's family, who are going to see their husband/fathers name dragged thru hell, and he's not here to defend himself.

I've thought about that, too, booboo, but to a man, it may have been merciful, term used loosely, that Paterno passed away when he did...a death no doubt hastened by the stress, heart conditions, nervous disorders, etc. engendered by carrying the alleged* horrific secrets inside him. (And his presentiment of the
terrible consequences to come).


* - I say "alleged" simply because I was not there and saw nothing first-hand, and generally try to give people the benefit of the doubt...overwhelming as the evidence/indications to the contrary may be, as the Freeh report makes them out to be in this case.

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

Not the boot but I believe the B1G should administer some sort of punishment to show the rest of the nation that it does take this situation seriously.

To me, this is where the true nuts and bolts lay with this whole situation.

While I disagree that the Big Ten should take some sort of action, I do believe some action should be taken, and that should be by the NCAA itself.

Here's my thing.....

If PSU doesn't receive any type of punishment for this sick coverup, the NCAA is essentially saying that covering up child molestation is OK, but they'll be DAMNED if you try and coverup tattoos and cars.

Now, clearly, that doesn't make any sense, and the NCAA isn't stupid enough to not understand this very predicament.

I don't see a death penalty coming (had that argument yesterday here in the office with a couple guys), or really anything close to it.

But I would say that a postseason ban of a year or two, perhaps the loss of some schollies, etc., would be a fair hammer to drop.

As mentioned above, it wasn't the current players or coaching staff that had anything to do with it. That being said, some think that punishing those people at all isn't fair. While I tend to 'agree' with that, what people have to realize is that punishment would be specifically for the institution itself, regardless of who it affects in the short-term (current players/coaches).

I just find it extremely hypocritical of the NCAA if some form of punishment isn't handed down.

As one of the vic's lawyers said yesterday on ESPN, everyone at PSU is trying to make this a non-football story. And in many ways, it is. But at the same time, this happened on the football team's watch, with their coaches/staff. With that, in the end, this is a football story as well.

It isn't a football issue. It is a legal issue. The school/football team should not be put on probation. It should be handled by the civilian courts.

How did they get a competitive edge by letting Sandusky molest boys? They didn't. This is not a sports story. This is a horrible crime, but I don't think the current team should be punished.

Look, half the admin was arrested and face charges and will have their day in court. They are also going to pay out a lot of money to the victims after the civil suits are completed, and JoePa is dead.

The school should take down his statue, but being punished by the NCAA isn't warrented in my opinion.

This was posted just a few minutes ago on the 'other' forum, from a handle I'm not familiar with: Jamara3933

"Folks, I'm being told by my sources in Indianapolis that NCAA officials have just concluded a closed door meeting regarding the Penn State situation and a decision was made ordering Penn State to cease football operations indefinitely, effective immediately. I am being told that there will be a 2:30 PM CT news conference at the NCAA headquarters to announce the decision.

That's it for now folks, more news as it becomes available!"


Who knows if there's any weight to this or not...

There are many types of crimes out there. To me one of the most heinous is raping the body and minds of a helpless child. Even your most hardened criminals (murderers and such) despise pedophiles. That is why they serve their own brand of justice and why most individuals like Sandusky are placed in Ad Seg. (personally I think these criminals should be forced into the prison population and be forced to look over their shoulders every second of the day)

That being said, i think any individual or institution who turns a blind eye or covers these atrocious acts up, should be held acountable regardless of the damage done to that institution. As a man I cannot understand janitors, asst coaches, an any other individual, who saw or had knowledge of these acts, did not rip Sandusky's head off.

In my opinion this is a major coverup and while it might hurt innocent people, PSU needs to be punished severely to send a strong message to any other institution.

Interesting read on this topic:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8160717/college-football-penn-state-nittany-lions-earned-wrath-ncaa

fishgoblue22 wrote:

It isn't a football issue. It is a legal issue. The school/football team should not be put on probation. It should be handled by the civilian courts.

How did they get a competitive edge by letting Sandusky molest boys? They didn't. This is not a sports story. This is a horrible crime, but I don't think the current team should be punished.

Some are making the argument that PSU did gain a competitive advantage because covering up the endless Sandusky crimes helped maintain the school's squeaky clean image that's been pounded in our heads for decades. Penn State used that image as a major part of their recruiting pitch and it got them some all around great student athletes. If Sandusky had been turned in when he was supposed to be, the program's reputation would have taken a major hit and Paterno would have had to answer endless questions about how he could keep this sicko around his program for so long.

No way, people who live in glass houses should not throw stone. The admin and coaches should all be let go, but the PSU family many who had no clue of what was going on, should not be punished.

fishgoblue22 wrote:

How did they get a competitive edge by letting Sandusky molest boys?

Fish I think you're looking at it the wrong way. There was no competitive advantage on the field to a 60 year old molesting boys. The advantage lies in the fact that Sandusky was the best viable option as a D coordinator that PSU had and their cover-up allowed him to stay on the sidelines. That is where I believe the NCAA should find exception.

I think the NCAA should punish. I am sorry but these crimes were heinous and he NCAA should be just as concerned with morals and ethics as they are about coaches texting recruits. I think it would be absurd for them to not be concerned with criminal acts going on in college athletics. What if these acts had been done on a player? The NCAA should be actively involved in creating an atmosphere that is safe and conducive to learning and excelling in athletics.

Mark Emmert was on PBS where they talked about the PSU'S scandal. While he was very ellusive in saying what penalties PSU might face it does seem clear to me that they are definitely getting involved in leveraging a punishment and would not rule out the death penalty. He even discussed the whether the issue was a football problem and says it is bigger than a football problem.

My read is that they are looking investigate and take action. They are viewing this as a very serious matter. I think the only thing that may keep the NCAA from issuing penalties would be if they do not have the authority to rule in such matters. One thing is for sure; these are unchartered waters.

Judge for yourself:

http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-president-mark-emmert-wont-rule-out-heavy-sanctions-for-penn-state-2012-7

In the end, I don't think Penn State is ever going to get booted from the conference. But I find myself sometimes wishing they were gone. This ordeal has been embarrassing to the conference. The reaction from PSU nation hasn't helped matters either. I'm sick of hearing the excuses that JoePa was from a different time and he didn't know how to use email and he didn't know what rape/molestation was, if you can buy that. The Paterno family now wants to hire someone to investigate the Freeh report. Yeah, like that's not going to end up being biased. And Penn State has no plans to take the JoePa statue down because they're afraid it will anger alumni. This is just further proof that the school still doesn't get it. Fighting for JoePa's image will always be more important than the abuse Sandusky's victims will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Excellent post, WH. We ought to have a personal e-mail chain to discuss this---on second thought, no, let's leave the sordid topics out in favor of sticking to discussiong our next beating of ND!!!

The reaction from "Happy" Valley has indeed been mind-boggling [Look at the spike in contributions]. As have, as you point out, the apologists' beaucoup excuses for JoePa. He didn't know what rape/molestation was, for Cripes sake??? Maybe, ahem, his former defensive coordinator could give him a demo??? Utterly incredible. Like those repugnant crimes were never perpetrated by anyone prior to the 21st century???

But I have a point I'd like to add: I can't understand all the to-do about NCAA prez Emmert "Not ruling out the death penalty." When talk of that inevitably came up, around the beginning of this whole foul mess, it was very clearly expounded by many reputable writers (that narrows it down, eh?) that an SMU-like death penalty can only be meted out to a program which is already on probation at the time of the [at-issue] offense. And while these offenses are arguably the most egregious in NCAA football history, I am not aware PSU was on probation prior to their coming to light. (Or am I wrong?)

No they were not on probation BUT Emmert also stated that there is no past precedent for this. I think what gets lost in this whole debate is we are in uncharted waters. Throw out whatever has been done in the past or has not been done. This is the worst scandal college athletics has ever been a part of. Period[. We are not talking free tattoos or $50 hand shakes.

What I think will happen is the NCAA will not be able to do anything. I think if they would try to penalize PSU there would certainly be a legal challenge. PSU will once again take the moral low road and will move on like nothing ever happened. I do believe that the statue will be taken down. I also believe that the NCAA will write in some type of player/coach conduct policy like the NFL has. It will not mean anything in this situation but will give the NCAA the ability to punish for these types of things in the future. I think they should call it the Penn State rule and let PSU live with the scarlet letter for all of eternity.

To drastic? Perhaps. The more I think about what took place, the more I want blood.

Here's a fun question for everyone-What if this took place at Michigan? It is hard for me to think I would no longer root for the team since I have been programmed my entire life but it would be hard. If you take the reaction of most at PSU it seems like they are still in support of the program. Perhaps we are all brainwashed to follow our programs even if it leads us off of a cliff.

WillieMfan wrote:

I think they should call it the Penn State rule and let PSU live with the scarlet letter for all of eternity.

I don't feel your proposal is all that far-fetched, WMF...in terms of neither the appropriateness, nor of the likelihood of its eventual implementation. After all...consider:

(1) Megan's Law

(2) [a person's] Miranda rights

(3) Lindbergh Law

(4) Comstock Act

Et al.


Granted the NCAA is not the United States Supreme Court [thank God!], but how better to render a new
law, statute or ruling readily identifiable than by the name of the person(s), institutution(s) or event(s)
involved in the initial, "ground-breaking" case?

i think the ncaa could bring sanctions against psu and there would be nothing the school could legally do to stop it. i am not saying it will happen but who knows. i will say this, years ago while psu was "squeaky clean" it was only because when football players got into "situations" it was handed over to paterno/football program to take care of and kept hush. he had that much power at one time!

Ny Daily says drop the hammer and drop it now-

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/ncaa-drop-hammer-proscratinating-death-penalty-decision-article-1.1116622

michmike wrote:

But I have a point I'd like to add: I can't understand all the to-do about NCAA prez Emmert "Not ruling out the death penalty." When talk of that inevitably came up, around the beginning of this whole foul mess, it was very clearly expounded by many reputable writers (that narrows it down, eh?) that an SMU-like death penalty can only be meted out to a program which is already on probation at the time of the [at-issue] offense. And while these offenses are arguably the most egregious in NCAA football history, I am not aware PSU was on probation prior to their coming to light. (Or am I wrong?)

They were never on probation prior to this scandal. And the reason I know this is because PSU fans bragged about being the only college football program to never be on probation ENDLESSLY. (We held that distinction ourselves until Stretch-gate under RichRod.) But PSU used that as part of their squeaky clean image and recruiting technique. Last November when the Sandusky news first broke, JoePa cancelled a press conference at the last minute where he was going to address it and instead, someone on his coaching staff hung a sign on his door saying the conference would have to be postponed but don't worry, Penn State will handle this news with class as always and our good name will be preserved because we have integrity, blah, blah, blah. We're also the only school in college football to never be investigated or go on probation, yadda, yadda, yadda. The whole thing was so nauseating. I'm glad PSU can never brag about this issue anymore.

WillieMfan wrote:

Here's a fun question for everyone-What if this took place at Michigan? It is hard for me to think I would no longer root for the team since I have been programmed my entire life but it would be hard. If you take the reaction of most at PSU it seems like they are still in support of the program. Perhaps we are all brainwashed to follow our programs even if it leads us off of a cliff.

That's a nightmare type question that I don't want to imagine myself in. Some folks might not know that JoePa was very close to being hired as our head coach in 1968. He was Don Canham's top choice and they had 3 meetings to discuss the issue. After their final meeting, Paterno called up Canham to ask him if he could make a final decision after Penn State played in their bowl game. Canham replied that he couldn't wait that long. At that point, Paterno reluctantly turned the offer down. Playing the 'what if' game here brings some scary thoughts. What if Canham had waited and Paterno DID became our coach after that bowl game? He could have easily brought Sandusky to Ann Arbor with him and Jerry could have been abusing little boys in our own backyard.

A bright side to this little flashback is the fact that after Canham and Paterno hung up and Canham had to go back to coach searching, Paterno called him back an hour later and recommended this Schembechler guy who was doing good things at Miami-Ohio. Bo's name had been brought up twice before from colleagues but when Paterno's recommendation for Bo came in, Canham finally looked him up and the rest is history.

I like to think that if something like the Sandusky scandal happened at Michigan it would not have gotten that far. There are checks & balances all over the university and no one has complete control. No Coach ever at UM has had anywhere near the amount of power as JoePa had a PSU. The closet that I can think of is Coach Red Berenson but that's Hockey. Hockey doesn't get any where near the respect and admiration as does football. However, once you walk through those doors at Yost you are no longer at The University of Michigan, you are at The Republic of Berenson.

But to answer Willie's question, I'd be in total disbelief if something like what happened at Penn State comes out about Coach Carr, Coach Moeller, or *gasp* Bo. That would completely devastate my entire belief system and I would question every single thing that I learned at Michigan. *shudder*

this is a tough call...im leaning with the group that says they should not get the death penalty.

as far as the big ten giving PSU the boot -wow that is also a tough call. if PSU's program turns into worse than Indiana, it certainly does not help the conference. If the east coast no longer tunes into PSU and Big Ten games, it does not benefit the conference. If the Big Ten boots PSU and then the ACC adds them, and things turn around for PSU, then that obviously hurts us.

I guess it is best to ride out this terrible time for PSU, and let them rebuild their image -whatever is left of it.

The JoePa statue might come down this weekend. Though we seem to be getting conflicting reports on that.

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/20/penn-state-take-down-joe-paterno-statue/

WolverineHistorian wrote:

The JoePa statue might come down this weekend. Though we seem to be getting conflicting reports on that.

Could be. Many pundits have somewhat-callously joked that it should remain, if rotated "to look the other way".

For that same reason, I say let Paterno's name continue to adorn(?) the Pattee Library...which, after all, is
supposed to be a place of SILENCE, no?

michmike wrote:

Many pundits have somewhat-callously joked that it should remain, if rotated "to look the other way".

Awesome.

And so it begins! The talks about NCAA penalties and even PSU self imposing penalties. 4 star DT Webb just jumped ship and committed to UNC. More defections are expected.

North Carolina is an odd choice to transfer to what with them having major NCAA issues themselves. Then again, academic fraud is a different universe than letting a sicko rape children for a decade.

Surely this won't be the last PSU player to transfer after what's happened.