Will Campbell stock rising

Lovin this.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2013/01/will_campbell_willing_to_play.html

Wish he could put it together a couple years ago.

I'll put that on the coaching staff from a couple years ago.

2 scenerios

1. a pro team gets hold of him and gets his ass in gear and he becomes All Pro

2. He can't get his shit together and he busts.

THEstjoemfan wrote:

2 scenerios

1. a pro team gets hold of him and gets his ass in gear and he becomes All Pro

2. He can't get his shit together and he busts.

He won't be a bust either way, because he will be a late round pick. Late round picks are bonuses if they work out. I think he becomes a career backup that is a hole plugger.

#1 won't happen IMO. I think he is one of those kids with talent people dream of but no work ethic. Will had 4 years to figure it out and just did not get it together.

Give me Mike Martin any day of the week over Will.

Give me Mike Martin any day of the week over a lot of people. How strawman is that to compare Will Campbell to Mike Martin?

Zero work ethic base on what? That is a completely ignorant statement. You don't come to school as a freshman and drop from 356 to 308 in 4 years with zero work ethic.

You don't graduate from the University of Michigan in 3.5 years with zero work ethic.


And what do you mean did not get it all together? He had an exceptional year. Was he an All-American like we hoped a 5-Star DT would be? No, but he did league the D-Line with 44 tackles. He had two huge games vs Northwestern and Iowa. He had a B+ type season. Quit acting like his senior year was anything like his first three years, it wasn't.

THEstjoemfan wrote:

2 scenerios

1. a pro team gets hold of him and gets his ass in gear and he becomes All Pro

2. He can't get his shit together and he busts.

Or scenario three, he lands himself on an NFL roster as a 22 year old (will be 21 at the draft) and has a 6-10 year career as a rotational DT. When you consider the minute percentage of NCAA Divison 1 players that actually stick on NFL rosters, let's not get greedy and say "All-Pro or bust".

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

Give me Mike Martin any day of the week over a lot of people. How strawman is that to compare Will Campbell to Mike Martin?

Zero work ethic base on what? That is a completely ignorant statement. You don't come to school as a freshman and drop from 356 to 308 in 4 years with zero work ethic.

You don't graduate from the University of Michigan in 3.5 years with zero work ethic.


And what do you mean did not get it all together? He had an exceptional year. Was he an All-American like we hoped a 5-Star DT would be? No, but he did league the D-Line with 44 tackles. He had two huge games vs Northwestern and Iowa. He had a B+ type season. Quit acting like his senior year was anything like his first three years, it wasn't.

Clearly you know ignorant statements.

I only say Mike Martin because he did not posses the physical attributes that Will Campbell was blessed with. Mike is considered to be short. Forgive me for being factual and not responding with the same OPINION laced response that you responded with. Fact-Mike was a 4 star out of HS ranked 12 at his position. Will was a 5 star ranked 6th. Mike was undersized at 6'1 285, while Will came in at 330 per Scout (not sure where your 356 comes from). Mike worked his ass off.

Forgive me if I don't gush over a 356 lb (if he was 356) guy losing 48 lbs. You want to bet a $1 that Mike Martin's combine numbers beat the shit out of hard working Will's? The combine sure would be a good comparison no?

Please define the exceptional year with a little more than tackle's. The weakest unit on Michigan's defense was the d-line this year. so forgive me if I do not get excited that he led them in tackles. Feel free to throw in some of his post season awards....oh wait there weren't any. What about being named all big 10? No again! At least put a little effort in and see how his 44 tackles compares to other d-linemen. Hell then you could have one fact in your drivel.

Tone is hard to read often but if I had to guess you tried coming out guns blazing on your post. Next time keep the weak shit to yourself and try to find something to substantiate your claims.

I think Will was a 5-Star in high school more for his OL cred than DL, from what I recall during his recruitment. Many of the "experts" said he could be a great OL during his time at UM, or a decent DL. He chose to be a DL so we'll never know. Hopefully he succeeds at the pro level though.

His position rankings were as a DT.

This was the will I was hoping to see...



but in the end I'm glad he got it together and graduated. whatever he does from here out I wish him the best.

We all were. Every year we were on Big Will watch waiting to see if this was going to be the year he turned the corner.

WillieMfan wrote:

I only say Mike Martin because he did not posses the physical attributes that Will Campbell was blessed with. Mike is considered to be short. Forgive me for being factual and not responding with the same OPINION laced response that you responded with. Fact-Mike was a 4 star out of HS ranked 12 at his position. Will was a 5 star ranked 6th. Mike was undersized at 6'1 285, while Will came in at 330 per Scout (not sure where your 356 comes from). Mike worked his ass off.

There you go again, comparing Campbell to Mike Martin. That is like me saying Michael Crabtree is a horrible WR for the 49ers because he isn't as good as Jerry Rice was, despite having far superior physical attributes. Martin was a special player. He had unmatched drive and strength for his frame. We won't get another Mike Martin, so let's drop the idea that someone has to be on Mike Martin level to be considered a good DT.

WillieMfan wrote:

Will was a 5 star ranked 6th.

What do star rankings have to do with if somebody is a good player or not? Did Campbell live up to his 5-star hype? No, I already said that. That doesn't mean he wasn't good this year.

WillieMfan wrote:

Forgive me if I don't gush over a 356 lb (if he was 356) guy losing 48 lbs.

The 356 number comes from the article that I posted and plenty of other articles. I don't need you to gush over it. It would take a fool to disagree with the following statement:
"It takes dedication and hard work to lose 48 pounds."

So once you admit that losing 48 pounds takes hard work, then you'll be admitting that he does, in fact, have some work ethic.

WillieMfan wrote:

You want to bet a $1 that Mike Martin's combine numbers beat the shit out of hard working Will's? The combine sure would be a good comparison no?

Why do you insist on comparing Campbell to Martin? My stance has nothing to do with Mike Martin. My stance is Will Campbell is a good DT. Campbell doesn't need to be on Mike Martin level to be good.

But just to humor you, I'll bet whatever you want to wager than Campbell puts up more then Martin's 36 reps on bench press.

WillieMfan wrote:

Please define the exceptional year with a little more than tackle's. The weakest unit on Michigan's defense was the d-line this year. so forgive me if I do not get excited that he led them in tackles.

Campbell's role on defense is to take up blockers and let the linebackers make plays. Campbell did that well and to tack on 44 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack on top of that is pretty impressive.

Since you didn't take time to read the article I posted, I doubt that you will take your time to evaluate this series. It was Northwestern's possession in OT, Michigan had just scored. Arguably one of the most crucial defensive possessions of the season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48_yiHbzmos

Starts at the 1:23:00 mark.

1st and 10: Campbell blows past his guy with a swim move and forces the QB to scramble. Great play from the DT position. Doesn't get that sack, but that doesn't negate the great play.
2nd and 3: Campbell holds his point of attack and then overpowers the O-Lineman and wraps up the RB at the line of scrimmage until a linebacker finishes the play.
3rd and 1: Campbell takes on a double team which opens the middle for Demens to spy the QB and make the stop behind the LOS.

I watched Will do it all year. You may not have paid much attention to WC, and I don't blame you because focusing on a 1-tech DT is not very fun. Things like this don't show up on the stat sheet.

WillieMfan wrote:

Feel free to throw in some of his post season awards....oh wait there weren't any. What about being named all big 10? No again!

Associated Press All Big-10 Honorable Mention
Invite to the postseason, all-star, "East vs West Shrine Game"



And since you didn't take the time to read the first article, I doubt you will take the time to read this one. It pretty much is a summary of everything I just said.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2012/12/will_campbell_regretful_he_lea.html

If your statement was that Will Campbell came in with zero work ethic, I would have agreed. The switch came on with Hoke and CO. and anybody objectively looking at it (throwing out rankings, expectations, etc.) would agree.

Is he a 5-Star All American we had hoped? No. Did he became a solid DT, have a good year, and work his ass off for two summers to get to where he is now? Yes. Absolutely. 2 years ago Will had the same size and strength that he has now, but no one would have projected him to get drafted. So what changed? His work ethic.

You admit he didn't live up to the hype. What do you attribute that to? Good work ethic? Didn't have the physical attributes? What?

I am going to pass on analyzing ONE series of Will's. Speaking of things that are not indicator of someone's performance.

We also have different definitions of work ethic. Work ethic is long term. Just because someone gets serious and busts ass for a year, I am not going to anoint them as a hard worker.

The bottom line is this year was his best and it was average at that. No one is on here posting how their worried about replacing a will next year. Why is that? He is after all the leading tackler on the line.

WillieMfan wrote:

You admit he didn't live up to the hype. What do you attribute that to? Good work ethic? Didn't have the physical attributes?

Years 1 and 2
Bad technique, no one coaching him up, lazy, bad work ethic

Year 3
Bad technique

Year 4
Overhyped, but still a solid DT.

WillieMfan wrote:

I am going to pass on analyzing ONE series of Will's. Speaking of things that are not indicator of someone's performance.

Well break down his senior season then.

WillieMfan wrote:

We also have different definitions of work ethic. Work ethic is long term. Just because someone gets serious and busts ass for a year, I am not going to anoint them as a hard worker.

Will absolutely dominated kids in high school because he was so much bigger and stronger than everyone. He never need technique or to work hard. He took that attitude to Michigan.

By year 3 he finally woke up. He looked much improved both in body, attitude, and play.

By year 4 he became earned All Big 10 HM and an Invite to the Shrine game.

I'll take that.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

Years 1 and 2
Bad technique, no one coaching him up, lazy, bad work ethic

Year 3
Bad technique

Year 4
Overhyped, but still a solid DT.

I feel like we agree essentially but you need to hear it from yourself. The bottom line is Will was a bust. Coming out of HS. With the hype that he did. He received a world class education for free and in return he produced roughly 66 tackles over his career at Michigan. Probably not the best ROI.

I agree his first 2 years he was a bust.

Do you agree that he showed signs of improvement his Junior year and had a good Senior year? (You don't earn Big 10 HM by having a "meh" year)

All I'm saying is that if ranking systems gave him a 4* instead of a 5*, this is the kind of Senior year you would expect and be happy with.

Just because scouts said he was a 5* doesn't make that season any less worthy of praise.

Sure he improved. He went from 19 tackles to 44. That's improvement.

Is All Big 10 Honorable Mention an good accomplishment?
Is playing in the all-star East vs West game a good accomplishment?

Yes. They both are. If you drop the rankings that scouts gave him 4 years ago and just focus on this season, you can't say Will Campbell had an "average" year, because "average" players don't get invites to the East vs West game. Good players do.

In a very broad sense-
Great players = Senior Bowl
Good players = Shrine Game
Average players = Raycom Classic

The fact that you failed to:
1. Read the initial article in the original post before before blabbing about how big of a failure Campbell is,
2. Watch a series that shows the little things that Will did all year,
3. Failed to read the 3rd article talking about Will's early struggles and late success

convince me that you just don't want to be convinced. You are set it stone that Will Campbell is a garbage DT. You see, most Michigan fans have read these articles and have seen those plays, and will admit that Will did a complete turn around by his senior year. You just can't admit that he, finally, and 3 years, was a good DT.

I admire your determination to force your views down people's throats.

You can have what ever litmus test you want and I will have mine. I am not going to keep repeating my stance that he was a bust over and over again. No one is concerned about replacing him next year. No one. That speaks volumes. I could give a shit less that he is in the East-West Shriners game. What a weak fucking argument that is. It's a game that players play so they can improve their draft stock. Frankly, I don't recognize half the names on the rosters. Regardless, I have never heard someone list the East-West game in a player's accolades.

You can have the last word on this. I am done arguing about a player that showed up for one year and was average when he did show up. You want to credit his for one year of service. I don't. Progams that are BCS caliber programs do not have players that are coasting by for 3 years. We need guys that come in a compete on day 1 regardless of their recruiting ranking.

The floor is yours. Make you umpteenth post crediting him for showing up for one year.

No objective poster on this forum would look at Will's Senior year and not say he had a good season. You clearly have a bias based on high school recruit rankings and a terrible first 2 years.

It brings me back to my first point. 2 years ago Will started cutting down his weight, started showing glimpses of a starting-caliber DT. 2 years ago Hoke took over the team and works specifically with the D-Line.

Just because Will didn't turn it around his first 3 years doesn't mean he didn't turn it around his 4th. He played himself to an all star game, All Big 10 Honorable Mention, and the NFL Draft.

That is more than a lot of Michigan players have done.

Honestly, I'd like to get other people's opinions. We are obviously on two opposite ends of the extremes. You wanting top prospects to perform like top prospects, and me knowing Will personally.

Any one else have input?

He was lazy/uncoachable for three years, he admitted that. The light went on for him before his senior season. Good, because the team needed him last season. He also took the opportunity to mentor younger defensive linemen and told them to not be like he was.

I think if he would have worked harder from the start, he may be looking at a first round pick instead of trying to impress at an all star game to be picked in the later rounds.

^^^^^

Agree.

fishgoblue22 wrote:

...He was lazy/uncoachable for three years, he admitted that...

Agree whole-heatedly but I also think the atmosphere and system of the previous staff had a little to do with it. 99% of the kids out there need motivation for whatever it is they are doing. The 1% that do it on their own regardless are the special ones.

I like Barwis but all he did was tell kids to drink chocolate milk. And Coach Clod didn't give a rats ass about defense. I actually feel sorry for the kid because if there was a real Michigan regime in place when he came in he "could" have been a top ten pick.

2ndComingOfBo wrote:

I like Barwis but all he did was tell kids to drink chocolate milk.

I doubt that, since so many former players and NFL players come from all over to work with him. He is responsible for upgrading the UM weight room, and the current strength staff is benefitting from it.

Not to mention has Mealer walking again. I see players still talking about him. I don't see Barwis as an issue.