Big Will NOT invited to combine.

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d9KY9?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=michigan-wolverines-football

Hmmm, what do you make out of this? I still hope that the guy has a successful Pro career, I think Rich-Clod ruined his collegiate career before it even really started (combined with Big Will's own lack of self-discipline).

Old news.

But, I don't put the blame on RR. I put the blame on Will Campbell. Mike Martin played his first 3 years under RR and he over acheived during that time. Molk played his first 3 years under RR and he over acheived during that time.

The problem with today's society is loolking for someone to blame other than looking in the mirror.

Big Will only has Big Will to blame. If he worked hard, he may be there.

Agree Fish. Big Will has stated himself that he did not always put forth his best effort. He has no one to blame but himself.

That is most certainly part of it 'fish. But it also needs to be taken into account where Big Will came from. He never really had much discipline growing up, he could always just out-muscle anyone. When he got to Michigan reality was thrown in his face. He needed a Coach (it doesn't have to be the HC, just some authority figure) to inspire him to work harder and improve his technique. I blame Rich-Clod because he was the HHIC at that horrible period of Michigan Football.

This would not have happened had Coach Hoke, Coach Carr, even Coach Moeller been the Head Coach. Trust me on that. Rich-Clod has multiple flaws but the most glaring IMHO is his lack of leadership.

Well, if he needs someone to inspire him, he won't last long in the NFL. It's a job, and if you can't inspire yourself to do your job, you will be replaced.

College Freshmen are 18 (typically) when they arrive on campus. The NFL has a rule in place, not only for kids to mature physically but also mentally, that you have to be 3 years post High School to play in the NFL. Big Will wasn't mature enough, as several kids are not, out of High School. Kind of ironic how he received the message after three years at Michigan (3 years post High School) and after Rich Clod was gone.

Barwis is a terrific S/C guy but he can't do it all. As discussed on another thread, he has terrific techniques for athletes who are already there. or people who are rehabilitating from an injury and have the sincere drive to improve. If there's one down-fall for Barwis it's that he isn't an outstanding motivator. Don't get me wrong, anyone who is already in the position and wants to work hard is going to love him (evidenced by professional players coming to see him) but if you aren't in the mental state yet you'll blow him off. That falls on Rich Clod....

OK, let me get to the point. 18 year olds are considered adults. At 18, I was deployed with the Marine Corps. I didn't need someone to inspire me to do my job.

I'm sick and tired of the coddling some people need, especially college students. Most want to suckle the teet as long as possible. It disgusts me to think that someone needs to be inspired to play for Michigan. The honor of playing for Michigan should be enough.

This is funny to me. In basketball people bitch about the 1 and done rule. In football people are arguing that 18 year old's are not mature enough physically/mentally. Which is it?

'fish, having guns fired at you is motivation. Your drill instructor was motivation, RichClod was not a drill instructor. He was more of a "Gee, I hope this works out" type of guy.

This isn't about being "coddled", rather it's about motivation. You'll notice that when Coach Hoke got here Big Will suddenly found the moivation. I wish the guy all of the success in the world but I just wish he had 4 years at Michigan instead of 1 (the first three under Rich Clod don't count as that was not Michigan). Maybe if Rich Clod held a gun to Big Will's head things would be different but then there would be a whole bunch of other problems.

'fish, having guns fired at you is motivation. Your drill instructor was motivation,


Have you ever served in the military, or is this statement based on your cinematic experience?

It has got to be cinematic experience.

Geez, enough with the whole Richclod thing. The guy didn't work out here but he isn't to blame for big Will's failure to fulfill his promise coming out of high school.

We had several other D-lineman who grew and thrived under the prior regime.

'shoes

I agree with 'shoes, I put 95% of this on Big Will.

It is, ultimately, Big Will's fault. He didn't have the support that he (and many other kids) he needed though. Not in when he started college, not growing up, he finally received it after Coach Hoke arrived on campus.

He was also more grown-up...maybe age was the factor, maybe Hoke, maybe both...who's to know.

Maybe it was oh shit I am running out of eligibility and have done nothing yet. If I want to play in the NFL I better get my shit together and start working.

fishgoblue22 wrote:

OK, let me get to the point. 18 year olds are considered adults. At 18, I was deployed with the Marine Corps. I didn't need someone to inspire me to do my job.

I'm sick and tired of the coddling some people need, especially college students. Most want to suckle the teet as long as possible. It disgusts me to think that someone needs to be inspired to play for Michigan. The honor of playing for Michigan should be enough.

+100

So 2nd, what exactly is your point? Other than maybe scheme, I don't think anyone can argue RR or Barwis lacked motivating players.

A few points: Some beings are motivated, some aren't. Some people seize the opportunity, others waste time. Independent people don't blame others.

The other thing that is unrelated to this thread, WC had a free ride at Michigan. If the issue was that he lacked motivation, I say kick his ass out and give the scholarship to someone who is motivated. He can still take classes though. he'll just have to take out loans like everyone else.

Everyone seems to be taking this WAY out of context. BWC was not lazy, granted he did not put in all of the "extra time" that some people do. My point is that he didn't have the type of coching staff to instill that sense of pride until his Senior year. Rich Clod alwys said, "That's good enough" and worried more about his slot receivers than guys in the trenches on either side of the ball.

Not everyone "gets it" that ttending The University of Michigan is an honor. These kids are 17 years old (normally) when they sign their LOI. Sure there are of course a few (Shane Morris is the obvious recent example) that always knew that Michigan is a special place, that is why they are good recruiters. Peer support is huge now, in all facets of life. You are much more likely to listen to a Peer than some old guy who you share nothing in common with. BWC had niether, MM was a quiest guy (except on the field) and he did not have the coaching staff. I am not making excuses for him , rather attempting to explain why it isn't entirely his fault.

"Rich Clod always said, "That's good enough" and worried more about his slot receivers than guys in the trenches on either side of the ball."

That's preposterous. Brandon Graham, David Molk, Mike Martin, and Ryan Van Bergen all improved greatly under the prior staff.

Let your hatred go.

'shoes

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but I'll close (hopefully) with asking you the question "Why were our teams man-handled, even by MAC-quality teams?" Don't get me wrong, I like Barwis. But we just never seemed to have the brut strength required for high-level D-1 Football?

We had a talent shortfall that began in Lloyd's last 3 years or so either because of bad luck, bad evaluations or both, it then was exacerbated during RR's 3 years and when the first year was so bad on the field and people spread the word he would be gone soon (thanks Lloyd) it got even worse.

Our brute strength didn't allow us to beat App State and as for MAC schools we struggled with the likes of Ball State and Northern Illinois even under Lloyd.

We need some continuity of staff now and success on the field to further buttress the recruiting momentum and we'll be fine. RR deserves blame for sure but it wasn't ever because he didn't care or could not coach. He did and he can.

'shoes

Rich Rod neglected the defense and more importantly the D-Line.

Will had no 1on1 work to teach him technique (technique he never needed in High School). Hoke has been Will's personal coach, for the most part. It is not a coincidence that we saw a more dedicated player the past 2 years.

This isn't speculation. It is what it is. Rich Rod and his staff spent little to no time teaching technique to the D-Line. Mattison and Hoke do.

So you're saying Graham, Martin and Van Bergen were all self-taught guys? I think you need to talk with them and maybe you will have a different point of view.

Bruce Tall was actually a very good coach.

As far as neglecting the defense- two points:

1) When he arrived the offense was in shambles- not a BT caliber offense, he justifiably put the focus on rebuilding that. In his last year the focus had shifted to defense (15 of 25 recruits I believe).

2) He screwed up the DC position first in hiring Shafer but not giving him enough authority and then in firing him and replacing him with Robinson. Of course the budget that Brandon gave to Coach Hoke for assistants was double that of what RR was given. Mattison may love Hoke and Mich but he makes more than what Robinson and Shafer made added together. He's worth it but his equivalent would have been worth it 2 and 3 years earlier too.

'shoes

2nd, how old are you, really? Why do you always resort to name-calling? RR inherited a program that had been declining for several years. RR did not take a #2 teamand lose to Appy State. Llloyd had been losing his mojo when he mercifully decided to retire, then gave RR little support.

wshoes wrote:

So you're saying Graham, Martin and Van Bergen were all self-taught guys? I think you need to talk with them and maybe you will have a different point of view.

Bruce Tall was actually a very good coach.

As far as neglecting the defense- two points:

1) When he arrived the offense was in shambles- not a BT caliber offense, he justifiably put the focus on rebuilding that. In his last year the focus had shifted to defense (15 of 25 recruits I believe).

2) He screwed up the DC position first in hiring Shafer but not giving him enough authority and then in firing him and replacing him with Robinson. Of course the budget that Brandon gave to Coach Hoke for assistants was double that of what RR was given. Mattison may love Hoke and Mich but he makes more than what Robinson and Shafer made added together. He's worth it but his equivalent would have been worth it 2 and 3 years earlier too.

'shoes

No I did not say that. Does every poster on this board resort to strawman arguments?

Will did no get any one on one work coming into college as a 17 year old 5* that absolutely dominated through HS because of his size and strength. He needed a kick in the ass and didn't get one until the coaching regime changed. Hoke was Will's personal coach. If you can't see the difference between freshman/sophomore Will Campbell technique(gag) and effort(gag) and junior/senior Will Campbell technique(progressed) and work effort(worked his ass off, took a leadership role his senior year) then you were never really watching close enough.

And seriously, to compare Will Campbell's situation to those other guys is comparing apples to oranges. Sure, they all played "Defensive Line". The guys you mentioned were all 3 tech DTs, pass rushers who's role was to get into the backfield and make plays. Campbell played the 1 tech where his role was to take on double teams and let the linebackers make plays. He did that extremely well his senior year.

The 1 tech DT is all about pad level and technique. Things Will admitted to never needing or caring about in high school. When he came to college, it was a new ball game, but there was no one taking the time to teach him technique / pad level / etc. I think he may have set a record his freshman year for "Field Goal Blocks Allowed".

His senior year, his technique was great. There were very few times I saw him get driven off the ball like I was so accustomed to seeing his 1st three years. I have ties to Will, so I watched him every play he was in. I'd like to think I saw things a lot of people weren't looking for.

I'll post this again, not as a "see! he was good!" but as a "things like this get overlooked by someone just watching the game. Someone watching Will Campbell realizes 'damn, Will made a great play'".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48_yiHbzmos

Starts at the 1:23:00 mark.

dwoody, Michigan was ranked #4 at the time of the Appy. State debacle. Stop trying to make it worse than it already was. Read my posts, I vsupported that clown until he lost to sparty for the third time. This is Michigan, you do not do that. Period. ohio I can live with but not sparty.