More Hoke

I am what I would call a small to medium donor. I have a very good friend who is a medium to big donor. He has been Brandon's guest at games for instance, (he's not wild about Dave). He had the chance to spend a little time with Brady at an off season function and said he could not believe how unimpressive he was, and forgive me- how unintelligent he seemed. I say seemed because sometimes that can be deceiving.

He said that it is a complete contrast with Beilein, who is soft spoken but very impressive in taking about basketball.

'shoes

I really believe that michigan settled with hiring hoke because they couldn't get any of their top candidates.

umichfaninpa wrote:

I really believe that michigan settled with hiring hoke because they couldn't get any of their top candidates.

There is no good evidence they made any effort to get a top candidate, I think its highly unlikely that we could not get a far superior coach.

Brandon wanted a yes man under him.... he needs limelight and that would not have happened with Les or JH.... he got a yes man in Brady

I think you're right, Bo. I'm guessing JH or Les wouldn't even consider working under Brandon. Sometimes I wonder that if they actually did get offered the UM job, they politely said 'no thank you' because of him (DB). I've often wondered that......

Only one offer was made- to Hoke.

wshoes wrote:

Only one offer was made- to Hoke.

Ok, thanks for that clarification, shoes. I wasn't sure what the hell happened back then.....ya read so many different stories of what may have been.

Making an offer and being told NO before an offer is made still equates to a 3rd choice. As for Hoke being unimpressive in social situations does not mean is not intelligent. Some people are not comfortable in social situations and can come across as awkward. Hoke has to be well spoken in areas he is comfortable in or he would not be able to land the recruits that he does. I don't see him as a suit and tie guy at a dinner. He is an everyman guy who is more comfortable on the back deck of a house with a group of regular people. Can of beer instead of wine. It's about your comfort zone. Earle Bruce was fired from OSU because he didn't fit in at the fundraisers and the boosters didn't like him. Wine and cheese crowd versus beer and chips crowd.

blu4vr wrote:

Making an offer and being told NO before an offer is made still equates to a 3rd choice.  As for Hoke being unimpressive in social situations does not mean is not intelligent.  Some people are not comfortable in social situations and can come across as awkward.  Hoke has to be well spoken in areas he is comfortable in or he would not be able to land the recruits that he does.  I don't see him as a suit and tie guy at a dinner.  He is an everyman guy who is more comfortable on the back deck of a house with a group of regular people.  Can of beer instead of wine.  It's about your comfort zone.  Earle Bruce was fired from OSU because he didn't fit in at the fundraisers and the boosters didn't like him.  Wine and cheese crowd versus beer and chips crowd.

blue I hear you and hence my qualification re intelligence. But the peripheral evidence based upon his entire career, is not in his favor.

I have heard Earle Bruce give game analysis on radio and he makes a far better impression.

And who do you think the first two choices were? Miles had no chance of getting an offer then. Mary Sue poisoned that one after what Lloyd told her. DB did not want Harbaugh then and was relieved to use the "he was looking to the NFL reason" which was in fact true. Would he have gotten an offer if he had not been looking to the NFL 4 years ago? My guess is no but that is a guess.

The other issue was Harbaugh's old DUI which after the Moeller experience was an issue, but I think that the more time that has passed and the change of people involved in the decision, the less of an issue that is.

'shoes

'shoes wrote:

I have heard Earle Bruce give game analysis on radio and he makes a far better impression.

That is my point. Earle Bruce talking football is his comfort zone. Brady Hoke talking football is his also. Drinking tea with your pinky sticking out is not comfortable.

In my heart, I truly believe that an outstretched hand was given to Miles and Harbaugh when RR was let go. It was not a big secret that UM wanted their "Michigan Man" and who are better candidates for that job? Nobody! They both said no, no offer was given and Brandon went with Hoke. I may be wrong, but that is what I think transpired behind the scenes.

Who said anything about drinking tea? I was referring to discussing football with a donor.

Discussing football with a donor was more than likely in a formal setting, not a back yard BBQ. It was an analogy.

Brandon himself has said that Brady was his guy all along and I have it on good authority that the consulting with Les thing was all for show to please the Schembechler/ Desmond Howard wing of the Michigan family which is very distinct from the Lloyd Carr wing. Lloyd is a small vindictive man and he did all he could to block Les.

blu4vr wrote:

Discussing football with a donor was more than likely in a formal setting, not a back yard BBQ.  It was an analogy.

Formal? A quiet one on one conversation? OK, I get it. I like him too but that doesn't mean we should settle for him, and what we are paying him and his staff. The assistant coaches' salaries are more than twice what we were willing to pay for RR's coaches.

So what about Harbaugh? He was blackballed too? Because of Mo and his drunken incident 15 years earlier? That seems to be as stretch to me. They wanted a Michigan Man after the RR experiment (and he shouldn't have been fired in my opinion, but I digress). If you have it on good authority that Hoke was the guy all along, it further proves my point that there will never be a strong HC at UM because the Brandon ego will not allow it.

Harbaugh wasn't blackballed.

He had no interest in going to Michigan. His eyes were set on the NFL the whole time.

Admin wrote:

Harbaugh wasn't blackballed.

He had no interest in going to Michigan. His eyes were set on the NFL the whole time.

I think it was a combination of this and brandon having his mind made up on Hoke.

I think Hoke was given the job because he was the only candidate that united the different factions. Carr and his cronies would have been upset were Miles or Harbaugh to get the job. The same would be true if Brandon gave the job to an outsider. The only way the behind the scenes drama would stop is if one of Carr's guys were hired. Remember in 2007 he recommended Hoke, English, or Debord. If he had his way in 2007, Hoke would have been HC and Debord and English kept on as coordinators.

My negative view of Miles has nothing to do with his relationship with Carr. I don't think Miles would be a good choice based on his baggage with what conspired at Oklahoma State. Read the SI story from last year.

blueest wrote:

I think Hoke was given the job because he was the only candidate that united the different factions. Carr and his cronies would have been upset were Miles or Harbaugh to get the job. The same would be true if Brandon gave the job to an outsider. The only way the behind the scenes drama would stop is if one of Carr's guys were hired. Remember in 2007 he recommended Hoke, English, or Debord. If he had his way in 2007, Hoke would have been HC and Debord and English kept on as coordinators.

My negative view of Miles has nothing to do with his relationship with Carr. I don't think Miles would be a good choice based on his baggage with what conspired at Oklahoma State. Read the SI story from last year.

I think you're wrong about uniting the factions. It was never going to happen. It was Carr's boys vs BO's. I think the university played off of RR being an "outsider" though. they put a spin out it that a Michigan Man was back at the helm and things were going to change.

what you said about Hoke, English and Debord is 100% true. Carr wanted "his" guys and not BO era guys like Les.

Carr had beef with Les though and that really compounded the issues.

It is a known fact that UM had an agreement in principle for Les to be the next coach. Carr stuck his nose in and messed that all up. Carr is the one that called RichRod. Carr then allowed any kid to transfer without RichRod's knowledge.

I think Carr's beef with Les all started when Les told UM  he didn't want to be an assistant to Carr when Carr took over for Moeler. The nail in the coffin was Les Miles stealing Jai Eugene. I still remember when that happened. I was shocked. I once read somewhere that BO actually called Les and told him that it was not a good thing and that he disapproved. Then LM followed that up by getting Barksdale to go to LSU the next year ha ha. Carr was beside himself about losing a pipeline kid to Les.

I wish Carr would just talk about it though. he never gave interviews regarding that coaching search. I read that Bacon called him 11 times to get his side of the story for "Three and Out" and Carr never returned his calls.

Carr is out now (or at least on the sidelines with zero say). I wonder if DB would ever hire a guy that wasn't a yes man.

I think the Bo guys as you call them, would support anybody who was hired. You see how Moeller supported RR and then showed up to the Hoke press conference. Remember how Moeller was at that spring pep rally for RR? Rick Leach supported RR and Hoke. In my view, anybody who did not come from the Carr coaching tree was going to be undermined by Carr.

[/quote]It is a known fact that UM had an agreement in principle for Les to be the next coach. Carr stuck his nose in and messed that all up. Carr is the one that called RichRod. Carr then allowed any kid to transfer without RichRod's knowledge.[/quote]

Do you have any proof to back these comments up? Just because Herbstreit said it doesn't make it true.

Carr called RR? If anything I thought Carr undermined RR every chance?????

Carr allowed transfers without RR's knowledge? Please don't say Mallett because, as you like to say, it is a known fact he was transferring anyway.

Lloyd Carr did all he could to sabotage RR by running to the players before they had even met RR and telling the he would sign their transfer papers .... this was after he had sabotaged the search for a new coach ... this well documented fact by insiders like John Bacon , not just the thoughts from a Canadian walmart wolverine with no ties to the university ... go back to 1969 .... what did Bump do when players came running to him crying about BO .... he told to get their ass back to practice and compete ... BO always said without Bumps support he would never had succeeded in 1969 ... to me Carr is no longer a Michigan Man , not that which BO meant that statement to be .. he may raise millions for hospitals , and that is far more important than any sport ... but this topic has to do with football and the Meechigan program .... LLoyd Carr is directly responsible for the fall of this program since 2008

BOLEACH7 wrote:

Lloyd Carr did all he could to sabotage RR by running to the players before they had even met RR and telling the he would sign their transfer papers .... this was after he had sabotaged the search for a new coach ... this well documented fact by insiders like John Bacon , not just the thoughts from a Canadian walmart wolverine with no ties to the university ... go back to 1969 .... what did Bump do when players came running to him crying about BO .... he told to get their ass back to practice and compete ... BO always said without Bumps support he would never had succeeded in 1969 ... to me Carr is no longer a Michigan Man , not that which BO meant that statement to be .. he may raise millions for hospitals , and that is far more important than any sport ... but this topic has to do with football and the Meechigan program .... LLoyd Carr is directly responsible for the fall of this program since 2008

You just have to see the difference in the way the previous regimes players acted in the transition. RR encouraged his players to buy in to what the next coach wanted to do. RR's players showed leadership during the transition from RR to Carr. Carr offering to sign papers didn't help with the transition. Many of Lloyd's upperclassmen such as Boren had bad attitudes. Hoke would not have been successful his first had not DR and the other RR recruits not bought in 100%.

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

It is a known fact that UM had an agreement in principle for Les to be the next coach. Carr stuck his nose in and messed that all up. Carr is the one that called RichRod. Carr then allowed any kid to transfer without RichRod's knowledge.

joe wrote:

Do you have any proof to back these comments up? Just because Herbstreit said it doesn't make it true.

Carr called RR? If anything I thought Carr undermined RR every chance?????

Carr allowed transfers without RR's knowledge? Please don't say Mallett because, as you like to say, it is a known fact he was transferring anyway.

Yes it was all spelled out in the 3 and out Book. After two phone conferences (and some back and forth in between) Martin, Coleman and Miles agreed in principle that Les would go to Michigan but Miles specifically told them that UM would have to wait until after the national championship game. Then just hours after the second call is when the word leaked. That is when Miles denied everything. It was definitely Lloyd Carr that reached out to RR. He then encourage Martin to give RR a solid look. Martin then called RR the next day, the rest is history. It was 100% LC that got the RR ball rolling. Then, ironically as you pointed out, LC undermined RR every chance he got while he was at UM.

Mallett was the best player to leave but all of the players say that Lloyd held a team meeting after the RR announcement and told the players that he would sign off on a transfer. EVERY player that has been asked has said that is exactly what happened in that meeting. RR says that he found out about that after he got to UM.

apart from Mallett leaving no matter what Lloyd may have done, as it seems he was not well liked in the program and was certainly not a fit for the RR offense , the others staying could have helped keep the team together and make the transition much easier for RR

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

It is a known fact that UM had an agreement in principle for Les to be the next coach. Carr stuck his nose in and messed that all up. Carr is the one that called RichRod. Carr then allowed any kid to transfer without RichRod's knowledge.

joe wrote:

Do you have any proof to back these comments up? Just because Herbstreit said it doesn't make it true.

Carr called RR? If anything I thought Carr undermined RR every chance?????

Carr allowed transfers without RR's knowledge? Please don't say Mallett because, as you like to say, it is a known fact he was transferring anyway.

Yes it was all spelled out in the 3 and out Book. After two phone conferences (and some back and forth in between) Martin, Coleman and Miles agreed in principle that Les would go to Michigan but Miles specifically told them that UM would have to wait until after the national championship game. Then just hours after the second call is when the word leaked. That is when Miles denied everything. It was definitely Lloyd Carr that reached out to RR. He then encourage Martin to give RR a solid look. Martin then called RR the next day, the rest is history. It was 100% LC that got the RR ball rolling. Then, ironically as you pointed out, LC undermined RR every chance he got while he was at UM.

Mallett was the best player to leave but all of the players say that Lloyd held a team meeting after the RR announcement and told the players that he would sign off on a transfer. EVERY player that has been asked has said that is exactly what happened in that meeting. RR says that he found out about that after he got to UM.

Everything 'eggo outlines here is fact, per Three and Out (and I definitely respect and believe anything John U Bacon has to say). The Miles deal was all but signed off on (literally), until the media caught wind. It was actually Kirk Herbstreit it announced it to the world when he was brought in on a live SportsCenter episode with 'breaking news'. Miles was pissed that the university didn't adhere to his wishes of keeping it quiet, and that was that.

And 'eggo is also right about the Lloyd Carr and RR stuff. It was Lloyd who reached out to RR to begin with.

Then, for whatever reason, quickly became his biggest enemy.

Did hold the meeting saying he would sign off on any transfers. Never once addressed the team after RR got there, even though RR repeatedly asked him to come speak to the team.

Lloyd was a real prick to RR. Hate to say it, but it's the truth.