we still need talent

we have our coach that is on a par with Saban and Meyer .... however the talent is still lacking , we need patience in the fact that it will take at least three years of JH recruits to bring us to the next level ... right now for me I would classify , Wormley , Peppers , Lewis and maybe Henry and Mone from the D as players that could start on other top teams .... as for the O all I see is Cole and Butt , and maybe as a stretch Darboh

I like Darboh but can't see him ever playing on a Top 5 team. A stretch is a slight exaggeration.

never said top 5 team .... I am looking at top 20 team .... that's how bad I think our talent is

Don't get me wrong, Michigan is no where near a Top 5 team. Maybe in, like you say, 3 years. However, I can see Michigan finishing top 15 this year (even though I picked them at 7-5), top 10 next year, and then by year 3 all bets are off-I'm hoping for a CFP berth.

year three will see three years of JH recruiting and three years of his discipline and coaching with the players .... I agree that this year could surprise .... for me I have confidence in the defense to be top level .... my x factor is Rudock at QB ... I have defended him so far as I think he gives us the best chance of success by far ... if he can get rid of his mistakes and just be efficient I think we can win 9

Michigan "could" win nine, however don't count on it. Remember what it was like when Rich Clod came to town? Granted it was an entire new style of play with players who were not equipped to play that style. Did the opposition just beat us and send us on our way? No, they embarrassed us and rubbed our noses in our own feces. Why? They could and this was Michigan, they had been losing to us for so long that they wanted to kill us when they had the opportunity.

Sure 2011 was nice but that just caused the opposition to reach back and despise us even more (plus the entitlement factor led to our own regression). Then we get Coach Harbaugh and the media has multiple orgasms, gee do you think everyone ws tired of hearing about it? Guess what they'll be playing like this year? Yep, they want to shut everyone up about Harbaugh. 7-5, I hope that I'm wrong.

Next, have you saw the line on the weekends game against UNLV yet? Michigan is favored by 34 points! That's even more motivation for other teams. 34 points! And wasn't everyone freakiong out about 15.5 to Oregon St.?

I hope this is the last time I have to say this (it won't be)...9-3. This year.

I'm gonna have to disagree with BO a bit here.

the talent is there.

is it as deep as O$U? no. but it's there. it has just been wasted by not being coached up or motivated properly from the last staff.

class ranking/star system aside (and I know the can of worms that debate opens up), MICHIGAN has as much talent on it's roster than all but one school in the B1G.

coach it up and build some depth and there is no reason MICHIGAN couldn't be a top 10 team with the athletes we currently have on our roster.

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

I'm gonna have to disagree with BO a bit here.

the talent is there.

is it as deep as O$U? no. but it's there. it has just been wasted by not being coached up or motivated properly from the last staff.

class ranking/star system aside (and I know the can of worms that debate opens up), MICHIGAN has as much talent on it's roster than all but one school in the B1G.

coach it up and build some depth and there is no reason MICHIGAN couldn't be a top 10 team with the athletes we currently have on our roster.

But how fast can you coach up players that are 2 and 3 years post High School? They've developed bad habits and those are difficult to break.

dwoody wrote:

I hope this is the last time I have to say this (it won't be)...9-3. This year.

We heard you the first time, I seriously hope that you are right but I don't see it happening. As you know, I'm on record as saying 7-5, 8-4 if we get several breaks. 6-6 is a slight possibility too but I doubt that happens. As of right now I plan on going to the Minnesota game in gopherville, that means they'll lose. sparty and suckeye are also losses. I'm guessing that Michigan losess 1 out of these three: BYU, Maryland, or Penn State (the most likely loss is BYU but not guaranteed).

You have no idea how much I want you to be right dwoody but I just don't see it. Just curious, do you think Michigan beats sparty or bucknut this year?

I'm still thinking 7-5 or 6-6 I think we will win Rutgers , Maryland , IU and PSU. BYU is a toss up. MSU and O$U will be good games but we are not there YET. Minny I don't know ? The team tha really confuses me is NW are they that good , or is it who they are playing, That's homecoming and I am try to bribe tickets for that game.

Wins IMO: UNLV, BYU, NW, Maryland, Rutgers, IU and PSU. Should be favored in all. We will find out a lot about BYU this week at UCLA.

Toss up: MSU and Minnesota

Loss: OSU

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

I'm gonna have to disagree with BO a bit here.

the talent is there.

is it as deep as O$U? no. but it's there. it has just been wasted by not being coached up or motivated properly from the last staff.

class ranking/star system aside (and I know the can of worms that debate opens up), MICHIGAN has as much talent on it's roster than all but one school in the B1G.

coach it up and build some depth and there is no reason MICHIGAN couldn't be a top 10 team with the athletes we currently have on our roster.

I disagree. After watching MSU against Oregon, Michigan is NOT in the same class. And no, they don't have the depth as O$U, let alone can they match starting talent. I think BO is right. They're years away from even a shot to keep pace on talent.

TheNewBlueOrder wrote:

But how fast can you coach up players that are 2 and 3 years post High School?  They've developed bad habits and those are difficult to break.

this is the real issue. you're right, it's not going to happen overnight. but there is enough talent on the roster to be a very very competitive team. depth and development are the issue at this point IMO.

EJinGA wrote:

sandyeggo_blue wrote:

I'm gonna have to disagree with BO a bit here.

the talent is there.

is it as deep as O$U? no. but it's there. it has just been wasted by not being coached up or motivated properly from the last staff.

class ranking/star system aside (and I know the can of worms that debate opens up), MICHIGAN has as much talent on it's roster than all but one school in the B1G.

coach it up and build some depth and there is no reason MICHIGAN couldn't be a top 10 team with the athletes we currently have on our roster.

I disagree. After watching MSU against Oregon, Michigan is NOT in the same class. And no, they don't have the depth as O$U, let alone can they match starting talent. I think BO is right. They're years away from even a shot to keep pace on talent.

and being a guy that lives and breathes recruiting, IMO MICHIGAN does have the athletes. Or at least they could have had they been brought up/coached up properly over the last few years. Case in point, MICHIGAN's QB roster is stacked. MICHIGAN's RB roster is stacked. MICHIGAN's TE roster is very nice. etc etc etc. My argument is that given the pieces UM got out of high school (and still has) compared to the pieces that MSU got out of high school (and still has), MICHIGAN has just as much talent. The difference is MICHIGAN's talent is still considered potential talent vs Sparty's proven talent. Sparty has done a much much much better job at utilizing their players and getting them ready to play the college game. Sparty is years ahead of MICHIGAN in that aspect. But this isn't RichRod's first year where the cupboard was absolutely depleted. JH has a lot of options and some of those options were waiting to break out and it's showing already so early in the year (Wormley, Smith, Darboh).

bottom line, IMO we have the talent, it's just not ready and unfortunately there isn't enough time left for some of that talent to be brought from potential to proven.

now, if the original argument was that MICHIGAN doesn't have the coached up talent to compete, then yes I completely agree. I guess it's an apples and oranges debate.

When I rewatched the game Sunday night, the segment Todd McShay did really told the story.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but it compared skill players drafted in the first round over the last 10 years versus the decade prior...there was major difference. Surprisingly, total number of players drafted was similar, but early picks slidsignificantly.

We lack the special playmakers we could always lean on to lead a victory in a game we should've lost:

Edwards, Walker, Manngingham, Hart, Perry, A-Train. Shit you could even put BJ Askew on that list in comparison to all but Deveon Smith on our current roster. As good as Butt looks, I think he still has work to do to 100% surpass the likes of Jerame Tuman and Bennie Joppru (don't get me wrong, he's well on his way and will at some point). Our fullbacks/H-Backs don't hold a candle to the likes of Aaron Shea.

My point is, we're missing those force-of-a-player(s). Do we have talent? Yes. But I don't sense any real stars and/or leaders that can go out and make that crucial play it was it absolutely needed...yet.

[And yes, that includes Jabrill Peppers. He's struggled mightily in pass coverage, and couldn't shed a block the entire first half of the Utah game.]

Admin wrote:

When I rewatched the game Sunday night, the segment Todd McShay did really told the story.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but it compared skill players drafted in the first round over the last 10 years versus the decade prior...there was major difference. Surprisingly, total number of players drafted was similar, but early picks slidsignificantly.

We lack the special playmakers we could always lean on to lead a victory in a game we should've lost:

Edwards, Walker, Manngingham, Hart, Perry, A-Train. Shit you could even put BJ Askew on that list in comparison to all but Deveon Smith on our current roster. As good as Butt looks, I think he still has work to do to 100% surpass the likes of Jerame Tuman and Bennie Joppru (don't get me wrong, he's well on his way and will at some point). Our fullbacks/H-Backs don't hold a candle to the likes of Aaron Shea.

My point is, we're missing those force-of-a-player(s). Do we have talent? Yes. But I don't sense any real stars and/or leaders that can go out and make that crucial play it was it absolutely needed...yet.

[And yes, that includes Jabrill Peppers. He's struggled mightily in pass coverage, and couldn't shed a block the entire first half of the Utah game.]

yep I think this is the best way to put it that speaks to BO's and my point. well said admin (mcshay)

great points by all .... I cant wait to get a game changing LB again ... we need a Simpkins , E Anderson , Irons type .... we need a Ty Wheatley , a David Terrell on offense .... we have talent, whether it really is good or over-rated we will know at the end of the year .... it is already obvious that we actually have coaches who know how to coach and analyze game film , so we shall see if Kalis and Green were 5 * or over-rated

Admin wrote:

When I rewatched the game Sunday night, the segment Todd McShay did really told the story.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but it compared skill players drafted in the first round over the last 10 years versus the decade prior...there was major difference. Surprisingly, total number of players drafted was similar, but early picks slidsignificantly.

We lack the special playmakers we could always lean on to lead a victory in a game we should've lost:

Edwards, Walker, Manngingham, Hart, Perry, A-Train. Shit you could even put BJ Askew on that list in comparison to all but Deveon Smith on our current roster. As good as Butt looks, I think he still has work to do to 100% surpass the likes of Jerame Tuman and Bennie Joppru (don't get me wrong, he's well on his way and will at some point). Our fullbacks/H-Backs don't hold a candle to the likes of Aaron Shea.

My point is, we're missing those force-of-a-player(s). Do we have talent? Yes. But I don't sense any real stars and/or leaders that can go out and make that crucial play it was it absolutely needed...yet.

[And yes, that includes Jabrill Peppers. He's struggled mightily in pass coverage, and couldn't shed a block the entire first half of the Utah game.]

Dave Diebolt!