Plan C

First off I want to say I do not think Hoke is going anywhere anytime soon.

I am curious to see what others think plan c should be if Hoke does not cut it whether it be a year or five years from now. What scares me about our current situation is Bo's legacy seems to be a dark cloud over the program. What I mean is this whole Michigan Man concept makes it difficult to just go get any coach to take over. See RR hiring. RR was supposed to be the guy that was going to bring Michigan football to the new age. After three year he was canned and Hoke and "Michigan football" return to Ann Arbor. The good news is former players come back to the program, the alums seem to support him, etc.

So if Hoke fails what do you do? Do you hire another "Michigan man?" If you hire an outsider how do you deal with alums and players that seem hell bent on living in the Bo era?

I pose the question because I think we are in a worse situation than most of realize. The last two times the job opened up it did not seem like coaches were beating our door down to come to AA. I just don't think you can throw anyone in the position and it will work out. There's no Urban Meyer out there for us.

Tell you this RR was not a Michigan man but he also didn't conform to what Michigan wanted to be. He immediately went to work on the offense and totally disregarded the Defense. I feel people here want a strong defense, that will hold opponents down similar to what MSU does, (In fact MSU has become Michigan) and an Offense that is adequate able to make big plays and keep drives going. Hoke is capable of this RR never was because he was all about offense , gimmicks and big plays.

If Hoke does not win 2 of the last 4 he should, and will be fired.

And if that does happen they need to move on from the 'Michigan Man' approach and find someone outside of the program.

the artist formally known wrote:

Tell you this RR was not a Michigan man but he also didn't conform to what Michigan wanted to be. He immediately went to work on the offense and totally disregarded the Defense. I feel people here want a strong defense, that will hold opponents  down similar to what MSU does, (In fact MSU has become Michigan) and an Offense that is adequate able to make big plays and keep drives going. Hoke is capable of this RR never was because he was all about offense , gimmicks and big plays.

Rich Rod focused on offense first because that was what was in the worst shape when he arrived. In his last recruiting class he went something like 15-10 for defensive players. He had some good defenses at W Va, but Mich went cheap (complete opposite of what they did for Brady with Mattison) and would not pay for Rich's choice.

'shoes

EJinGA wrote:

If Hoke does not win 2 of the last 4 he should, and will be fired.

And if that does happen they need to move on from the 'Michigan Man' approach and find someone outside of the program.

If we lose 4 out of 4 Brandon is not going to fire him- this was his guy- the guy he proclaimed as his first choice. He gets 5 years minimum IMO. Now if Brandon were to leave- all bets are off.

As to who we go after when that day comes- the best candidate we can find who will take the job. Whether he comes from the BO coaching tree should not be a criterion.

'shoes

I'm fine with throwing the whole 'Michigan Man' thing out of the window as long as the incoming guy respects the long-standing traditions of the program.

However, I have no clue who that hire would be.

We're Michigan, and shouldn't even be taking chances on 'up and coming' young coaches.

Chris Peterson comes to mind. I'd always give Les Miles a shot.

Or, screw it, write a $10 million check to Saban.

Admin wrote:

I'm fine with throwing the whole 'Michigan Man' thing out of the window as long as the incoming guy respects the long-standing traditions of the program.

However, I have no clue who that hire would be.

We're Michigan, and shouldn't even be taking chances on 'up and coming' young coaches.

Chris Peterson comes to mind. I'd always give Les Miles a shot.

Or, screw it, write a $10 million check to Saban.

I was thinking... Would Saban be arrogant enough to go to a Big Ten school to prove he can do it there to? He's got to be getting a little bored at Bama. Another day, another NC.

I know it would never happen, but it makes for an interesting though. And with his moral track record, would Michigan even want him?

Saban is not coming to Michigan.

EJinGA wrote:

If Hoke does not win 2 of the last 4 he should, and will be fired.

And if that does happen they need to move on from the 'Michigan Man' approach and find someone outside of the program.

He won't be fired. This is still a very young team if these guys were all Seniors maybe, but with this young group aint gonna happen

In fact, expect a contract extension because these days if you don't give one, it is used against you in recruiting.

'shoes

wshoes wrote:

Whether he comes from the BO coaching tree should not be a criterion.

'shoes

You won't get any argument from me on this.  That said, they went outside the tree with RR.  His resume was impressive.  He was a proven coach with a knack for juggernaut offenses.  He was pretty much DOA.  

I am just not sure how you bring in someone from the outside and have them be successful at Michigan.  I feel like Woody Hayes doesn't cast the shadow in Columbus that Bo does.  There have been a lot of coaching changes in C-bus and there is none of the issues that we have with expectations of running things a certain way. They sure as he'll seem to always find coaches that win too. Even though Cooper couldn't beat Michigan he still won a lot of games. Maybe we should hire OSU to do our next coaching search.

wshoes wrote:

Saban is not coming to Michigan.

I don't disagree with you at all, especially with his MSU roots.

However, it would be interesting to see how that conversation would go if $7.5+ million a year was being discussed (currently making $5.5 at Alabama).

Admin wrote:

Chris Peterson comes to mind. I'd always give Les Miles a shot.

Petersen was the guy I wanted instead of Rich Clod. I'm not sure that I'd give Les a shot, this is Michigan. We don't give "shots", you are hired to do a job not to see "what you can do". LSU would never let Les go and I'm not sure that Les wants to come back north.

Michigan coaching vacancies make Les a lot of money. He had two opportunities to come here and he didn't. I am ready to move on without him.

Chris Peterson is no longer a coveted coach IMO. His ship has sailed. He has turned down numerous jobs and now he is left with a program that is irrelevant.

If we are throwing out names. I would like Mike Gundy.

Les was not allowed to come here first because Martin was bullied by Carr and his boys and second Brandon never offered, get your facts straight

2ndComingOfBo wrote:

Admin wrote:

Chris Peterson comes to mind. I'd always give Les Miles a shot.

Petersen was the guy I wanted instead of Rich Clod.  I'm not sure that I'd give Les a shot, this is Michigan.  We don't give "shots", you are hired to do a job not to see "what you can do".  LSU would never let Les go and I'm not sure that Les wants to come back north.

Miles is too old and has too much baggage.

'shoes

He was perfect in 2008 and that baggage would not have been allowed in AA and I think Les would have known that

Old? Maybe. Baggage? Doesn't concern me. Is there an SEC team that is squeaky clean? How about one in the top 10? Sorry but wins and losses are how you are evaluated. The old adage of if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying is a live and well today. The goal is to not get caught. If recent punishments are any indication (The U) you only get a slap on the wrist anyway.

Okay all that being said Is RR still the reason we are what we are. or even Martin. If Lloyd Carr doesn't step down or even if he does and we hire a coach like him would the Michigan brand be any difference. The issue is Michigan is not stepping up to be honest I think wr have become the Spartans and the O$U of the 90's

In our dreams we are the Suckeye's of the 90's. Cooper couldn't beat Michigan but he still had teams that were good. They were at least ranked. We will most likely finish the season unranked.

I think what your are saying is hiring RR and his completely different style of football was the mistake. I will say IF Hoke gets fired, I hope they replace him with a pro style coach. Starting all over is nt an option.

MgoBlue wrote:

I will say IF Hoke gets fired...

Dumbest statement of the day. No way Coach Hoke gets fired. I understand that you are pissed but try using that lump on top of your neck...

MgoBlue wrote:

Old?  Maybe.  Baggage?  Doesn't concern me.  Is there an SEC team that is squeaky clean?  How about one in the top 10?  Sorry but wins and losses are how you are evaluated.  The old adage of if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying is a live and well today.  The goal is to not get caught.  If recent punishments are any indication (The U) you only get a slap on the wrist anyway.

How stupid is that? Just win, baby. Is that what you want Michigan to become? This great university does not need fans like you. Go root for Alabama.

MgoBlue wrote:

Old?  Maybe.  Baggage?  Doesn't concern me.  Is there an SEC team that is squeaky clean?  How about one in the top 10?  Sorry but wins and losses are how you are evaluated.  The old adage of if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying is a live and well today.  The goal is to not get caught.  If recent punishments are any indication (The U) you only get a slap on the wrist anyway.

I was starting to lose respect for you, and now it's lost.

I almost hope you were joking.

2ndComingOfBo wrote:

MgoBlue wrote:

I will say IF Hoke gets fired...

Dumbest statement of the day.  No way Coach Hoke gets fired.  I understand that you are pissed but try using that lump on top of your neck...

Please stop responding to me. You're a waste of time and add no value. You can't comprehend simple statements. I am trying to be civil here but you make it difficult.

Free lesson if is not equal to when. Therefor did not say he would be fired. Also I did not specify time. You don't know if he will be fired this year or in three years anymore than I do.

dwoody wrote:

MgoBlue wrote:

Old?  Maybe.  Baggage?  Doesn't concern me.  Is there an SEC team that is squeaky clean?  How about one in the top 10?  Sorry but wins and losses are how you are evaluated.  The old adage of if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying is a live and well today.  The goal is to not get caught.  If recent punishments are any indication (The U) you only get a slap on the wrist anyway.

How stupid is that? Just win, baby. Is that what you want Michigan to become? This great university does not need fans like you. Go root for Alabama.

Me and everyone else. Some will admit and some won't. We don't come to this forum to discuss academics. I am not rooting for the U of M robotics team. We don't spend a lot of money on game tickets and parking so we can sit around and talk about how great the degree is.

Is that what you do? Do sit around the water cooler trash talk opposing fans about how their degree is inferior? LMAO

I see a ton of posts about people being disgusted with the current team and coaching. I don't see anyone saying but hey guys we still have the world class education. And-since we are telling people who they should go root for perhaps you should go root for Harvard. Then you could really own the water cooler discussion next time.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

MgoBlue wrote:

Old?  Maybe.  Baggage?  Doesn't concern me.  Is there an SEC team that is squeaky clean?  How about one in the top 10?  Sorry but wins and losses are how you are evaluated.  The old adage of if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying is a live and well today.  The goal is to not get caught.  If recent punishments are any indication (The U) you only get a slap on the wrist anyway.

I was starting to lose respect for you, and now it's lost.

I almost hope you were joking.

Ouch! Sorry I lost your respect internet guy that I do not know. Get over yourself dude.

You are a joke, man. Do you think Bo would agree with you? I don't think so.

I like that Michigan football and Michigan basketball develop respectable young adults and while doing so can put together some good football and basketball teams. I'm pumped that BWC got his Michigan degree in 3 1/2 years, even if he never panned out as a 5* player. I'm pumped that our coaching staff dedicated themselves to teaching BWC how to fish rather than giving him a fish.

"Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

You sit here and say you would rather have a coaching staff that:
1. Lies to 16, 17, and 18 year old kids that dream of playing for Michigan? (Ie: Over-recruiting).
2. Teaches kids to cheat. (Ie: "We will give you money, but don't say anything.")
etc.
etc.

All for an extra couple wins?

Like I said, you are a joke.

Now you speak for Bo.  I'm sorry who is the joke again?  Please stick to posting selfies with the players.  Everyone loves a groupie.

MgoBlue wrote:

Now you speak for Bo.  I'm sorry who is the joke again?  Please stick to posting selfies with the players.  Everyone loves a groupie.

I think most people here would agree with Bo not being an SEC-type "win at all costs, even if it means lying and cheating" coach. We are all wrong, right?  

How does Saban cheat? Over signing is not cheating. There is no rule against it. You don't think kids know what they are getting into at BAMA? If they don't that's their own fault.

I love the whole if your team is good your coach must be cheating assumption.

MgoBlue wrote:

Old?  Maybe.  Baggage?  Doesn't concern me.  Is there an SEC team that is squeaky clean?  How about one in the top 10?  Sorry but wins and losses are how you are evaluated.  The old adage of if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying is a live and well today.  The goal is to not get caught.  If recent punishments are any indication (The U) you only get a slap on the wrist anyway.

While I don't agree with your philosophy and wouldn't want Miles as a coach because I think he's as dirty as they come, I think some are getting carried away with attacking you for this opinion. These are not laws that are being broken, they are just NCAA rules, and the NCAA is VERY selective about enforcing them. That said, they are the rules, and I want a coach who doesn't blatantly skirt them, the playing field should be even. Also, while I don't consider some of these shenanigans to be totally heinous, the worst thing these coaches do is the way they just cut some kids loose, I do think that is heinous. And the guys who have players getting extra benefits are always the guys who have no problem dropping a kid when someone better comes along. It's a slippery slope you see.