158 total yards on offense.

umichfaninpa wrote:

My concern is the offense, defense has made mistakes but they are on the field a lot.  I believe we have made improvement on that end and younger players are developing.  The lack of develop on offense is my concern.

Can't argue with this.

Maybe I am biased when I think about Hoke's ability to develop talent. Will struggled badly his freshman and sophomore seasons. He said time and time again that Coach Hoke worked with him more than any other coach on the staff. Because of Hoke, Will became a decent player who would go on to an All Conference honorable mention. I always think about what Will's ceiling could have been had he had that attention from day 1. He had the size and talent to be elite, but only had two years of proper development and coaching.

Hoke is bringing in better talent than any Michigan coach ever has. I want to see what he can do with that talent. This doesn't mean I'm following Michigan blindly.

will should have played O-line from the outset- many schools recruited him as an O-lineman and I think he could have been a good one, but he never got low enough consistently to excel on the D-line, under Hoke or anyone else.

'shoes

Well, he had absolutely no technique going into his junior year. I agree that he played too high his junior and senior seasons, but the difference in his technique was tenfold. It wasn't perfect, because if it was he would have been a beast, but it was much better than his first two years. He was actually coached and developed. I doubt Will gets drafted if Hoke wasn't here.

So the fact that William Campbell got drafted proves that Hoke can develop players? Yeah, ok... How about all the CURRENT players who have not gotten better.

158 freakin' offensive yards and a loss to Iowa... That's progress for ya. But hell, at least William Campbell got drafted...

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

Well, he had absolutely no technique going into his junior year. I agree that he played too high his junior and senior seasons, but the difference in his technique was tenfold. It wasn't perfect, because if it was he would have been a beast, but it was much better than his first two years. He was actually coached and developed. I doubt Will gets drafted if Hoke wasn't here.

Well if we're going to give coaches credit for getting guys drafted, how about a shout out for what RichRod's staff did with Stevie Brown? He was a mess under the LC regime and totally turned his career around with a position switch under RR and was doing well in the NFL until hurt.

For that matter I thought RR had 3 really good assistants: Barwis at S & C, Greg Frey with the O-line (who is doing really well at Indiana), and yes, Bruce Tall with the D-line. Brandon Graham blossomed under him and was outspoken in his praise. I also thought he did a great job with Mike Martin and Ryan Vanbergen. I still think Will just didn't have the skillset to play D-line.

'shoes

EJinGA wrote:

So the fact that William Campbell got drafted proves that Hoke can develop players? Yeah, ok... How about all the CURRENT players who have not gotten better.

158 freakin' offensive yards and a loss to Iowa... That's progress for ya. But hell, at least William Campbell got drafted...

I think the dichotomy has been pretty obvious under Hoke, the defensive players are developing just fine, the offensive players, with a few exceptions have been slow to develop.

wshoes wrote:

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

Well, he had absolutely no technique going into his junior year. I agree that he played too high his junior and senior seasons, but the difference in his technique was tenfold. It wasn't perfect, because if it was he would have been a beast, but it was much better than his first two years. He was actually coached and developed. I doubt Will gets drafted if Hoke wasn't here.

Well if we're going to give coaches credit for getting guys drafted, how about a shout out for what RichRod's staff did with Stevie Brown? He was a mess under the LC regime and totally turned his career around with a position switch under RR and was doing well in the NFL until hurt.

For that matter I thought RR had 3 really good assistants: Barwis at S & C, Greg Frey with the O-line (who is doing really well at Indiana), and yes, Bruce Tall with the D-line. Brandon Graham blossomed under him and was outspoken in his praise. I also thought he did a great job with Mike Martin and Ryan Vanbergen. I still think Will just didn't have the skillset to play D-line.

'shoes

There were three teams looking to draft him in the 6th/7th round as defensive lineman.

EJinGA wrote:

So the fact that William Campbell got drafted proves that Hoke can develop players? Yeah, ok... How about all the CURRENT players who have not gotten better.

158 freakin' offensive yards and a loss to Iowa... That's progress for ya. But hell, at least William Campbell got drafted...

There are players developing.

see: Frank Clark.

Like I said, I can go in depth about more players that are developing, but if you guys can't even admit to the fact that Frank Clark has show a lot of development, then it's pointless. People will see what they want to see.

And just curious, EJ, who would you attribute WC's development to?

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

EJinGA wrote:

So the fact that William Campbell got drafted proves that Hoke can develop players? Yeah, ok... How about all the CURRENT players who have not gotten better.

158 freakin' offensive yards and a loss to Iowa... That's progress for ya. But hell, at least William Campbell got drafted...

There are players developing.

see: Frank Clark.

Like I said, I can go in depth about more players that are developing, but if you guys can't even admit to the fact that Frank Clark has show a lot of development, then it's pointless. People will see what they want to see.

I've already responded to posts like the above. I just think people are frustrated and can't help but get carried away. The offense is terrible, so that means there can't be any players on either side of the ball developing.

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

And just curious, EJ, who would you attribute WC's development to?

That would likely be Mattison, and Hoke. I agree, he turned WC into a decent player. Frank Clark has become a stud too.

But we need to look at it as a whole. They lost to Iowa (again), and only gained 158 yards of offense. That clearly shows that these guys are not progressing, especially on offense.

I would really like to see what the defense can do if they had even a compitent offense...

Well considering they have had 5 different line combination, and Scholfield and Lewan are the only 2 constancy , along with The RB are seldom the same 2. I think 1st a line has to grasp the opportunity and run with it, The line coach has to see that they understand what to do and where. Hoke has said that he pretty much leaves the offense alone and works with the"D" more. That tells me that Borges is missing the boat.

EJinGA wrote:

hailtoyourvictor wrote:

And just curious, EJ, who would you attribute WC's development to?

That would likely be Mattison, and Hoke. I agree, he turned WC into a decent player. Frank Clark has become a stud too.

But we need to look at it as a whole. They lost to Iowa (again), and only gained 158 yards of offense. That clearly shows that these guys are not progressing, especially on offense.

I would really like to see what the defense can do if they had even a compitent offense...

Ok then we agree.