Hw good of a head coach is Brady Hoke really?

Ball State has been a D-1 program since 1975. A history of their head coaches:

1975-1977 Dave McClain 26-7

1978-1984 Dwight Wallace 40-37

1985-1994 Paul Schudel 60-48-4

1995-2002 Bill Lynch 37-53

2003-2008 Brady Hoke 34-38

2008 (one game)-2010 Stan Parrish 6-19

2011- 2013 Pete Lembo 25-12

The notion that Ball State was a wasteland where it was tough to win or that Brady turned the program around isn't really borne out. Also either Parrish is absolutely horrible or Brady left at the right time from a talent remaining standpoint (or some of both).

Their current coach is doing a nice job.

food for thought.

'shoes

Shoes, I don't know a whole lot about Ball State football, but I think the most relevant would be the coach right before him. BGSU hadn't had a winning season in six years before Hoke got there. Doesn't seem like the greatest environment to walk into. It took until Hoke's fifth year there to have a winning record, then in year six they were 12-1. When he got to San Diego State they had been really bad the previous three years under Chuck Long. They were bad Hoke's first year, but good his second year.

It can be hard to judge transitions though. It may seem like improvement should be steady, but the fact is, in football, you realize the dividends of your recruiting classes three years down the road. In year one, Hoke still had quite a few Carr recruits to work with, and there were some good RR players there too. Right now, we're dealing with a disastrous 2010 class and a transitional 2011 class, which are the team's redshirt sophomores through true seniors. We do have a good group on redshirt seniors though. I think there's a pretty big whole right behind them though. I think the jury's still out on Hoke. I expect to see a really good defense next year, and some improvement on offense. The following year, if he survives, there will be no excuses at all.

PS- I think the Penn State situation is somewhat analogous to Michigan's trajectory. In O'Brien's first year they were pretty good because he still had a group of 4th and 5th year players who didn't want to leave for their last season. Then they sucked this year as those guys graduated and the sanctions started to be felt. That's why I think we dropped off after year one. Obviously, our problems were self-imposed and we should also be able to rebound much more quickly than PSU.

JJ,

I think the PSU analogy you gave does hold up to scrutiny. PSU was in a much worse situation in every manner when O'Brien took over than when Hoke took over Michgian. PSU was 7-5 this year with a big road win against Wisconsin. Remember, Wisconsin was still in the running for a possible BCS at large selection the final game of the season, and PSU went in to Camp Randall and won. PSU didn't have that large of a drop off. Hoke hasn't had a huge road win in 3 years. O'Brien won at Iowa, something Hoke hasn't done in 2 tries. O'Brien has also beaten Wisconsin twice in a row.

Hoke had one special year at Ball State when all of the stars aligned in his favor. Urban Meyer took over BGSU and won immediately even though BGSU had consecutive losing seasons before he got there.

I am pessimistic by nature, so take what I write with that in mind. I believe if Hoke can't find an excellent O-Coordinator, Michigan is destined for 7-5 type seasons with an occasional double digit win season when both sides of the ball are stacked with upper classmen.

blueest,

We'll have to agree to disagree on PSU. I think they were A LOT worse this year than last year. Last year, they started out terrible but turned it around, going 6-2 in conference. They went 4-4 this year and lost to IU. They beat Wisconsin both years. The win over Wisconsin was surprising but PSU was a BAD football team this year. I wasn't attempting to compare Hoke to any other coach. Just pointing out that O'Brien also had a better team to succeed with in year one than year two, similar to Hoke.

JJ- Ball State had a better record in the 3 years before Hoke than in his first 3 years. In 8 years as a head coach before Mich, his teams lost 6 or more games 6 times. If you add in Michigan his teams have lost 5 or more 8 of 11 years. It would have been interesting to see if he could have sustained success at either Ball State or SDSU. I fear he is no more than an average coach but I hope I am wrong and that he goes on to be wildly successful.

'shoes

Better than Rich Rod, not as good as Bo. Too early to tell if he can/will be as good as Carr/Moeller.

wshoes wrote:

JJ- Ball State had a better record in the 3 years before Hoke than in his first 3 years. In 8 years as a head coach before Mich, his teams lost 6 or more games 6 times. If you add in Michigan his teams have lost 5 or more 8 of 11 years. It would have been interesting to see if he could have sustained success at either Ball State or SDSU. I fear he is no more than an average coach but I hope I am wrong and that he goes on to be wildly successful.

'shoes

I mean, I do understand what you're saying and why you feel that way. I just feel like, more than most people, I can see the several year progression that led to this mess we have on offense. I'd like to see how Hoke does with his recruits as upperclassmen. However, I am already convinced that Borges is a liability.

JJ,

I think next year has to be his make or break year at Michigan. If he can't get to the double digit win mark next year, then I don't see him obtaining 10 wins on a consistent basis. If he needs a team loaded with upperclassmen on both sides of the ball to get 10 wins once every 3-4 years in a weak conference, that tells me he is not a great coach.

Great coaches are great for a reason. Gus Malzahn can win the SEC with an Oline that is as young as Michigan's because he is a great football mind. Jim Mora can be in contention for a spot in the PAC 12 title game with an OLine younger than Michigan's and a redshirt sophomore QB. Both of these conferences are considerably tougher than the B1G.

To add to that, two of the B1G's best teams last year were not even eligible for postseason play.